Not in my BMW. Stupid idea.
Some thoughts about non-Euro Oil in my Euro car.
- Thread starter D4700
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
You are not looking for an answer. You are looking for confirmation bias.
My intention was never to seek validation, and I'm quite surprised that you're jumping to this false accusation over one post (which I feel comes off as merely soliciting a thought-provoking discussion). I was looking for a technical discussion, which has not occurred. I don't have a drop of ILSAC oil in my stash, and didn't really plan to - but I wanted people to critique the thought process I had about the convergence of engine and lubricant technology that seems to have occurred in the 2010s.
Instead, I now have a bunch of people that are treating me as if I've personally shot and killed the formulator of Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30. Oh joy.
The question still remains why would you do this? No ILSAC oil will have the demonstrated oxidation resistance, deposit formation tests, stay-in-grade performance nor likely the proper HT/HS as one with a verified manufacturer approval. If none of that is important nor relevant to you then do as you wish. But despite your silly comment about ESP you do get that for $27 at Walmart, right down the same shelf as the oils you’re asking about.
Perhaps I’m just weird that way. I have pretty much switched over to ESP on all my vehicles due to the VW 504 00 approval. I don’t see what advantage I’d get going the other way. I used to use Castrol Edge Euro and Pennzoil Euro L when they were reliably available at Walmart, but recently that has not been the case.
I would say under warranty stick with the Euro oil. If you're out of warranty and want to just experiment, go for it.
The testing and specifications are different. While there may be some overlap, I wouldn't be able to tell you where that is. There are specific wear tests in some Euro spec'd products that are exclusive to that manufacturer/spec.
If you were comparing say Mobil 1 EP 5w30 to ESP 5w30, there are some differences. ESP has a higher HT/HS (3.5>) and more shear stable viscosity modifier. The EP is heavily fortified with extra detergent and anti-oxidants, which enable long drains up to 20-25k (under the most ideal conditions and not really advisable for long term engine health).
If you're doing this just for fun and not concerned about longevity or warranty issues, have at it lol. In fact, go with Valvoline Restore and Protect, as at least it will restore your pistons to factory clean levels again.
To save $2.50, of course.
Doesn't dexos1 pretty well cover things like deposit formation, oxidation, etc.? Nobody has talked about how *much* more stringent the Euro approvals are, just that they *are* (says who?). Not talking about track driven or extreme OCI vehicles, just a normal putt around economy car here. About HTHS, most new Euros call for 2.6cP oils. You're already well ahead of the curve in that sense if you run an ILSAC 5/0w-30.
Hmm, well I could try and tease some of that out of the Afton Specification Handbook and elsewhere, but it's not worth it to me.
A Euro car calling for 2.6 HT/HS is irrelevant to me and wasn't the point of any of that. That's the minimum the manufacturer is allowing to prevent excessive wear, and to meet either the fuel economy testing or CO2 emissions limits.
At this point I agree it has devolved into confirmation bias, so if that's what you want to do then go for it.
I'm afraid I've only got a boatload of Mobil FS 5w-40 kicking around in the garage...@D4700 Did you already get a boatload of Quaker State Ultimate Protection 5W-30 at a good deal and just want some love from the rest of us to make you feel better? C'mon, you can tell us.
The horrified response to my question makes me want to buy some Quaker State out of spite though
Was your engine really designed to run 0W-20 oil? Or, is it mandated by CAFE in North America?
Perhaps but the reality is that nobody around here really knows except for maybe 2 or 3 individuals. Remember Euro approvals mean the formulation has passed the unique engine tests for the applicable automaker. Whether that be Mercedes Benz, Porsche/VW, BMW, or any combination thereof. It doesn't mean that a regular ILSCA 30 grade can't or doesn't. You could have an extensive UOA done which measure oxidations and compare your Quaker State Ultimate Protection 5w30 to say Pennzoil Euro L 5w30. See how oxidation and additives differ (ex, Boron vs no boron). Using someone other than BS for this.
It was, beyond a reasonable doubt. LL-17FE+ oil (0w-20) is still recommended by BMW in the German service manual, and listed in the German owners' manual - it's not just to appease the EPA. The technical training documents for the B series modular engine state specific improvements to the engine design to support the use of lower viscosity oils such as IROX coated rod bearings.
The only difference between the German and US recommendations is that the US manual allows for 0w-20 or 0w-30, whereas the German manual allows for 0w-20, 0w-30, 5w-30, 0w-40, or 5w-40. 0w-20 is still recommended in the service manual.
Plus, a personal observation as compared to my previous BMWs, turbo and non-turbo, oil cooler and non-oil cooler equipped: The B series runs at a cooler oil temp, particularly when you're having fun with it.
It may have been designed to tolerate the lower HT/HS of that oil without excessive wear under most circumstances, but that's as far as it goes. BMW did not make those design changes because they thought that a thinner oil would be good or beneficial to the engine, they do it so they will comply with fuel economy or CO2 emission rules - and be able to display slightly better consumption numbers to customers. There are no benefits to the thinner oil except this small reduction in consumption.
That technical training that states specific improvements to the engine design are, as you say, there to "support" the use of the lower HT/HS oil. They are accommodations.
QS Ultimate Protection 5W-30 sounds like a good choice to me, as long as you aren’t concerned with getting grief from the dealership if there is an engine-related warranty repair. The oil has modest TBN, like many oils do these days, so if you intend to push the OCI far enough to warrant it, get a UOA done at a good lab that measures oxidation and pay for TBN and TAN. The oil has particularly low volatility and very good resistance to forming deposits from high temperatures. QS significantly improved the latter compared to the API SN Plus Ultimate Durability lineup.
A moderator said you posted a dumb idea. Every person I respect in real life would not tell someone else that a dumb question was asked.
A moderator said you posted a dumb idea. Every person I respect in real life would not tell someone else that a dumb question was asked.
There are elegant and well-informed ways of calling my question dumb (which I was expecting when I typed out that post), but a non-substantive response that boils down to "it doesn't have the right license" doesn't warrant that kind of rhetoric. Oh well, it's entertaining when people don't realize that you're yankin' their chain a bit.
I wasn't planning on really testing this idea out (still have plenty of Mobil 1 Euro to exhaust in the garage), but the mixed responses in this thread have me really interested in giving it a shot. I'll sample my next drain of M1 5w-40 and see if I can pick out any trends with a couple fills of QSUP 5w-30.
“I wasn't planning on really testing this idea out (still have plenty of Mobil 1 Euro to exhaust in the garage)”
Kinda like a troll post just to get the natives restless I guess.
Kinda like a troll post just to get the natives restless I guess.
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Perhaps it should have been posted in the humor section.
It was intended as an honest question about a thought I had last night. I expected some humorous responses, but was hoping for an overall genuine discussion of some sort. I'm quite disappointed, as I feel the moderator set a poor tone for the rest of the thread.
wemay
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