Upcoming 0W5 Grade Red Line Oil Experiment- 2019 Lincoln Navigator 4WD 3.5L V6 Twin Turbo

[anderson]

the future is now

 

[sk_pete]

Might try 0W00 next and get it over with …

straight kero in oil pan
hmmm

 

[demarpaint]

That's an expensive vehicle to experiment on! I wouldn't even experiment with a lawn mower engine I have laying around. I know in the long run it will damage the engine, no need to experiment with it to find out.

 

[buster]

A UOA won't pick up on catastrophic wear if the wear is larger than what a UOA can identify.

 

[Bill_W]

What's concerning is that you think this requires a vivid imagination. You ever see a block get window'd Bill? Because I have. Sometimes the rod goes out the side, sometimes it goes out the pan, sometimes it goes out both. Spinning a rod bearing isn't some uber-rare event, and the results are often very messy.

Edit, here's some idiot windowing the block in his BMW M3. Note the fire and resultant oil slick:

My view is this is not a ”one time” for this lad. Starving an engine oil pump of oil is completely different. Compare apples to apples. If a car overheats the normal weight oil overheats and goes thin. It is not out of reach of thinking that 0w oil goes through to the 5 weight oil to get to what ever weight oil is normal viscosity successfully and at normal RPM the oil is in the hydrodynamic curve at that 5 weight. (Moving with oil separation)

 

[CarbonSteel]

My view is this is not a ”one time” for this lad. Starving an engine oil pump of oil is completely different. Compare apples to apples.

Supplying an oil to the system that does not meet the minimum needed viscosity will result in the same. I would opine that a highway trip for 150-200 miles will have the viscosity near zero and the twin turbochargers will be the first to go at some point.

The spirit of what he is doing is admirable and he obviously has the money to replace the engine, but at the same time, other than a zero sum game, nothing is going to be proven because this is not a controlled test by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[kschachn]

My view is this is not a ”one time” for this lad. Starving an engine oil pump of oil is completely different. Compare apples to apples. If a car overheats the normal weight oil overheats and goes thin. It is not out of reach of thinking that 0w oil goes through to the 5 weight oil to get to what ever weight oil is normal successfully.

Do you know how oil grades are measured?

 

[kschachn]

The spirit of what he is doing is admirable and he obviously has the money to replace the engine, but at the same time, other than a zero sum game, nothing is going to be proven because this is not a controlled test by any stretch of the imagination.

Admirable for what though? Other than a slight fuel economy increase what benefit is there to “proving” you can run the oil without damaging the engine? I’m still a little unsure what the advantage is, if any.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Admirable for what though? Other than a slight fuel economy increase what benefit is there to “proving” you can run the oil without damaging the engine? I’m still a little unsure what the advantage is, if any.

Just from the viewpoint that he is willing to destroy the engine at a cost. As I said, there is nothing going to be proven here--not even that an engine can run on this viscosity because there will be no results (perhaps pass/fail--but for how long is questionable) to show wear rates, etc.

As you have suggested, any true R&D scientist would be using this as an office joke to share with his/her colleagues of how not to perform testing...

 

[Bill_W]

Do you know how oil grades are measured?

104 deg. and 212 deg. f. viscosity in relation to the 2nd 212 deg. viscosity number as if that 2nd number was a straight viscosity number. All oil starts off too thick and with temperature gets thinner.

 

[Bill_W]

Supplying an oil to the system that does not meet the minimum needed viscosity will result in the same. I would opine that a highway trip for 150-200 miles will have the viscosity near zero and the twin turbochargers will be the first to go at some point.

The spirit of what he is doing is admirable and he obviously has the money to replace the engine, but at the same time, other than a zero sum game, nothing is going to be proven because this is not a controlled test by any stretch of the imagination.

Fluid is not compressible to an oil pump, all viscosity oil pumps the same as a positive displacement until the pump goes into bypass.

 

[slo town]

What's concerning is that you think this requires a vivid imagination. You ever see a block get window'd Bill? Because I have. Sometimes the rod goes out the side, sometimes it goes out the pan, sometimes it goes out both. Spinning a rod bearing isn't some uber-rare event, and the results are often very messy.

Edit, here's some idiot windowing the block in his BMW M3. Note the fire and resultant oil slick:

Freaking idiots. I just hope they don't have pets.

Scott

 

[CarbonSteel]

Fluid is not compressible to an oil pump, all viscosity oil pumps the same as a positive displacement until the pump goes into bypass.

And do tell how that is applicable here.

You seem to be suggesting that as long as the oil pump does not go into bypass that viscosity is irrelevant.

 

[kschachn]

Just from the viewpoint that he is willing to destroy the engine at a cost. As I said, there is nothing going to be proven here--not even that an engine can run on this viscosity because there will be no results (perhaps pass/fail--but for how long is questionable) to show wear rates, etc.

As you have suggested, any true R&D scientist would be using this as an office joke to share with his/her colleagues of how not to perform testing...

Such as the “Will an engine run on bacon grease? Let’s find out!” tests.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Such as the “Will an engine run on bacon grease? Let’s find out!” tests.

You got it!

 

[Bill_W]

And do tell how that is applicable here.

You seem to be suggesting that as long as the oil pump does not go into bypass that viscosity is irrelevant.

Well… If there is RPM on the engine the oil is pumping and the bearings are in hydrodynamic portion of the Stribeck curve. Cold start 0w-5 is the same viscosity as what you have in your car when you start it when cold. There is oil separation and the engine will not blow up. The 5 viscosity is at 212 F oil temperature whatever cSt that is. The engine made it there without catastrophic failure.

 

[JustN89]

"Those engines only last a pass or two and are then torn down and rebuilt for the next race usually on the same day."

Formula 1 cars are required to use the same engine for 2 or 3 races and still be able to win without any rebuild or modification between uses.

And most run a 10W-60 engine oil. Although HTHS is the greater consideration here, not necessarily viscosity.

 

[Bill_W]

And most run a 10W-60 engine oil. Although HTHS is the greater consideration here, not necessarily viscosity.

Formula 1 have an interesting start procedure due to the bearing clearances. Oil is heated reducing the viscosity of the 10w-60 oil before start.

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/f1-technique-how-to-start-a-formula-1-engine-part-1/35675/



Imagine using 10w-60 in your car that you had to pre heat before starting.

 

[AEHaas]

I consider myself to be a scientist. A common theme I had for many years was that:
I'll believe it when I see it.
I did well with this for many years.

Then I read a book that changed my life:
You'll See It When You Believe It: The Way to Your Personal Transformation by Wayne Dyer

As a physician, I can say that people would benefit from reading this book. I like self-help books (obviously I need all the help I can get...).

Ali

"For a control, did you not cut the filter open you took off prior to this experiment?"
That would have been beneficial, I did not think of that one. Oh well.

Also, the total milage on this oil is actually 1,059 miles. I did not want to take it too far in case the wear was excessive. I do not think that some elevated wear for a short period will hurt much. How thin can an oil get with a cooler running engine anyway? I do not have the loads these "racing" oils were made to handle so I figured it would be safe.

 

[kschachn]

Well… If there is RPM on the engine the oil is pumping and the bearings are in hydrodynamic portion of the Stribeck curve. Cold start 0w-5 is the same viscosity as what you have in your car when you start it when cold. There is oil separation and the engine will not blow up. The 5 viscosity is at 212 F oil temperature whatever cSt that is. The engine made it there without catastrophic failure.

Oil separation?