This is a continuation of an earlier thread. Please review for component history above.
All the testing Data is in now, comments from the labs are below the chart.
I added two virgin oil analysis on the 5W Red Line oil and particle counts from Polaris on the RL VOA and UOA.
HTHS values were performed on RL VOA and UOA by Savant Labs & Institute of Materials, Inc:
Nobody had the virgin oil analysis in front of them when giving me the UOA comments below:
Blackstone comments:
ALI: We didn't find a lot of information on the Red Line website about this oil. We're seeing some extra
metal and silicon, and if you're racing, this might be normal...(I do run up the RPM even with the oil cold (80F) and there is high speed highway travel that could heat things up as one pushes this barn door down the road - but no towing)). Copper and aluminum could be bearing wear with silicon showing abrasive dirt, or if work has been done, maybe all this is from new parts wearing in. Check the air filter/intake if you suspect dirt. The TBN is still good at 3.3. Insolubles show little oxidation.
(I sent in a virgin oil sample (VOA)) to them, I guess they missed the connection to this used oil sample - should have written it on the UOA sample)).
Synthetic Advantage written comments:
1) Copper and silicon elevations are suspect as they are key bearing and cylinder alloys in the design. If aluminum increases, watch out. Redline may be using very high anti-foamant as Si. There is not much iron to wear in this design. Monitor.
2) Very high anti wear level focused formulation but as we can see acid is rising rapidly in the duration. There is no lead in this engine design so that may be an additive.
3) Interesting that it's more viscous than the Redline spec sheet with nearly 2% fuels which may indicate some oxidation action since it has high anti-wear but no corrosion nor antioxidants levels for long drains.
4) Combustion dynamic is exceptional. EGR/CCV flows may be cleaned/scavenged and could contribute to Si rise.
5) I would not run this oil much further than 1500 miles duration in your application because of possible acidic corrosion taking place. But it will clean carbon away!
Audio tape remarks in addition to the above:
Fairly good results with viscosity having little to do with what is seen on the UOA. There is little iron from the high wear areas, mostly from the valve train and crank. Si is high most likely from anti-foaming additives and maybe seals but if the aluminum was higher it could also be from bearing wear. Watch the Al trend. There is lead but not from bearings, maybe an additive or gasket related. No turbo issues unless there is copper in there. There is no anti-corrosive activity so acid corrosion is an issue. This oil is not designed to be used on a continuous basis. Oxidative thickening is occurring. Water level is high as one could see in Florida and engine running at lower temperatures. (Meaning motor oil temperatures are low from lack of load and from the thin oil, nothing to do with low ambient temperature. We are in tropical Florida after all).
Polaris comments:
Flagged data (Cu, Si, Mn) does not indicate an immediate need for maintenance action. Continue to observe the trend and monitor equipment and fluid conditions. Flagged data may be 'wear-in' or contamination from overhauled or new unit; Silicon/Dirt may be present due to new unit contamination; Oxidation is flagged, however we cannot determine the severity of this oxidation value. If using a synthetic lubricant starting oxidation values are typically higher. Continue to monitor other fluid properties for trends of oil degradation. Please submit a new (unused) sample of this fluid for BASELINE REFERENCE. Copper is at a MODERATE LEVEL; COPPER is most likely LEACHING into the oil via the OIL COOLER core tubing. This typically DOES NOT REQUIRE MAINTENANCE ACTION unless there is evidence of COOLANT in the oil. COPPER may also be from fuel lines or similar tubing; Manganese sources in unleaded gasoline engines include manganese/bronze valve guides and/or an additive added to the fuel; Please provide COMPONENT MANUFACTURER and MODEL to compare data to the correct standards for this component. Lubricant and filter change acknowledged.
Note: The price of Polaris and Blackstone labs is comparable but the Synthetic Advantage lab costs 3-4 times more.
What is a possible mechanism for wear that is lower than expected for this thinnest of oils? The oil film thickness is what it is and basically viscosity related. One reason is probably the film strength. Esters have a higher film strength than regular dino components. Can a thin high ester oil act/protect as a higher viscosity grade in vivo?
For wear control many think that high Zn is a big contributer but values as low as 0.03 have been shown to be all that is needed. More does not mean higher levels of protection. The reason more is used is because it may be consumed and diluted so you have to start with enough for the application. A study I presented recently showed that the same oil, with all the Zn removed from the formulation, only doubled the wear rate. So Zn is not the cure-all for wear. I think the reason it is popular is because it is multi functional and inexpensive for formulators.
It seems the copper and maybe a componant of other metals as the iron could be from acid errosion. This oil is for race day, not to be used in a motor for months at a time.
For me the most interesting comment was from Synthetic Advantage:
“Fairly good results with viscosity having little to do with what is seen on the used oil analysis.”
Ali
