Red Line 5W Racing Oil, 2019 Lincoln Navigator 3.5L Turbo, 1,059mi - Oil, 29,000mi - Truck.

[AEHaas]

The run of this 5W grade oil was 1,059 miles from about 28,000 to 29,000 miles on the truck. According to Red Line the HTHS = 1.58. The J300 has a minimum kinematic viscosity requirement but no HTHS requirement for this grade. The HTHS for an 8 grade oil is 1.7.

Half high speed highway and half city driving. The engine takes 6 qts of oil and I would have needed to add a quart if I was going to continue using this oil. Normally with a 20 or 30 grade oil this engine uses no oil between changes.
At around 25,000 miles the air filter was replaced. Around 20,000 miles everything timing chains related was replaced, it was making a lot of noise just after start up especially. It was a known issue. All new seals to complete the work.

Previous oil changes were at around 6,000 mile intervals +/-, always with either 20 or 30 grade Motorcraft oil.

See original comments sans UOA here:

Upcoming 0W5 Grade Red Line Oil Experiment- 2019 Lincoln Navigator 4WD 3.5L V6 Twin Turbo

Engine: This Black Label version of the Navigator has a 3.5L, 450-hp twin-turbo V-6 pushing an over 3 ton barn door through the wind. It has 9k towing capacity and specs a 5W30 motor oil. It is mated to a 10-speed automatic transmission. The package gets you to 60 MPH in 5.4 seconds. Correct me...

bobistheoilguy.com

Tested Motor Oil, from Red Line web site:
Red Line 5WT Racing Oil 0W5 grade (their label, not mine)
Phosphorus, Avg PPM 3350
Zinc, Avg PPM 2400
Vis @ 100°C, CSt 4.6
Vis @ 40°C, CSt 21.8
Viscosity Index 134
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C= [email protected]°C
Pour Point, °C -54
Pour Point, °F -65
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 12
HTHS = 1.58

I will provide the comments from the testing labs later.

My guess is that the bearings are aluminum, tin and silicon with a copper base. The high copper is likely mostly corrosive rather than wear.

Water is high as the oil probably did not get very hot to help burn it off. Remember the products of combustion are about half CO2 and half H2O. Humidity is always elevated here and we know that it is an independent factor for wear, it is now controlled on ASTM engine tests.

Regarding the small particles seen on the oil filter. I do not know how much is metal, what type or if some of the particles are gasket material. The Motorcraft oil filter is rated at 50 percent capture of 20 micron particles. 20 microns is the limit we can see with the naked eye. The blot filter paper test was unrevealing and there were no particles even under magnification.

Occasionally the oil idiot light would blink when using Motorcraft 0W20 in my wifes Lamborghini when very hot. I forgot what the pressure guage showed but remember it was unremarkable. I wondered if the light would show up on this truck. It never lit up, if that tells us anything.

One of the purposes of this test run is to compare different labs results on the same oil sample. You may want to comment on this aspect as well as my insanity.

ali

 

[buster]

One of the worst contaminants is water, which is rarely discussed. Combustion of ethanol and gasoline. The oil has to emulsify the water. Some oils do in fact handle water better than others. This is what Valvoline is currently running on with their 24x better claims. Just an FYI.

 

[Brian123]

I do have a question, how many years or how many miles do you keep a car? You do realize that a UOA does not tell everything. Now, there is a sponsor of a very good oil on here who I have talked with and they have told me there are limitations to a thin oil.

Now another thing to point out here is, there was a certain member who posted UOA's that looked good, and 1 day his engine seized.

 

[wemay]

@AEHaas What's the total miles on the Lincoln? Was the Timing Chain covered under warranty?

 

[AEHaas]

@AEHaas What's the total miles on the Lincoln? Was the Timing Chain covered under warranty?

Total miles as above, 29,000, the last 1,000 of it on this 5W oil. 'About 9,000 after the replacement of the timing chain elements, yes a known issue and under warranty. The Black Label Navigator has a 4 year all service included and bumper to bumper warranty. I used the 20 grade Motorcraft oils between the factory provided 30 grade oil changes as I do not like going that long with OCI's.

I treat all my vehicles as if I am going to keep them forever but have never gone more than 50-60,000 miles. And only because they have come out with more desirable features I could not resist.

Ali

Thanks for that info Buster.

 

[JRed]

Wear is looking fantastic! Try extending to 5,000 miles on your next interval.

 

[wemay]

Total miles as above, 29,000, the last 1,000 of it on this 5W oil. 'About 9,000 after the replacement of the timing chain elements, yes a known issue and under warranty. The Black Label Navigator has a 4 year all service included and bumper to bumper warranty. I used the 20 grade Motorcraft oils between the factory provided 30 grade oil changes as I do not like going that long with OCI's.

I treat all my vehicles as if I am going to keep them forever but have never gone more than 50-60,000 miles. And only because they have come out with more desirable features I could not resist.

Ali

Thanks for that info Buster.

Thanks

 

[Oliveoil2]

I’m also wondering if oil usage would go down with a longer run? It would be good to see a 3-5k run. Any possibility Ali? And thanks again for your interesting posts.

 

[Bill7]

Would be interesting to run a good 5W-30 synthetic oil for 1k miles and do another UOA, and compare the two UOA's: 0W-5 versus 5W-30 in terms of wear metals.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

As a former ford tech, the only thing replaced on the 3.5 ecoboost is the cam phasers, and new TTY bolts that’s it. Chains, guides and tensioners are re used.

 

[JavierH19]

That's a ton of metal for just 1k miles.

Here's a near 11k Ecoboost uoa with just super tech 10k syn.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...2015-f150-2-7l-ecoboost-126-584-miles.342070/

 

[Direct_Rejection]

One of the worst contaminants is water, which is rarely discussed. Combustion of ethanol and gasoline. The oil has to emulsify the water. Some oils do in fact handle water better than others. This is what Valvoline is currently running on with their 24x better claims. Just an FYI.

Corrosive wear must always be a concern.

BTW I would absolutely freak out over this level of copper.

 

[AEHaas]

"As a former ford tech, the only thing replaced on the 3.5 ecoboost is the cam phasers, and new TTY bolts that’s it. Chains, guides and tensioners are re used."

It looks as they replaced everything to me:

Certainly there was also some acid cleaning that went on with this short, 1,059mi OCI, contributing to some of the metals. It reminds me of how Red Line oils often have elevated metals on first use.

When I dropped this 5W oil it was replaced with PZ 0W20 oil. I will also get a UOA on this oil. Later I am planning on going to a 16 grade oil. So we are going to get some long term results.

Ali

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

View attachment 138508

The run of this 5W grade oil was 1,059 miles from about 28,000 to 29,000 miles on the truck. According to Red Line the HTHS = 1.58. The J300 has a minimum kinematic viscosity requirement but no HTHS requirement for this grade. The HTHS for an 8 grade oil is 1.7.

Half high speed highway and half city driving. The engine takes 6 qts of oil and I would have needed to add a quart if I was going to continue using this oil. Normally with a 20 or 30 grade oil this engine uses no oil between changes.
At around 25,000 miles the air filter was replaced. Around 20,000 miles everything timing chains related was replaced, it was making a lot of noise just after start up especially. It was a known issue. All new seals to complete the work.

Previous oil changes were at around 6,000 mile intervals +/-, always with either 20 or 30 grade Motorcraft oil.

See original comments sans UOA here:

Upcoming 0W5 Grade Red Line Oil Experiment- 2019 Lincoln Navigator 4WD 3.5L V6 Twin Turbo

Engine: This Black Label version of the Navigator has a 3.5L, 450-hp twin-turbo V-6 pushing an over 3 ton barn door through the wind. It has 9k towing capacity and specs a 5W30 motor oil. It is mated to a 10-speed automatic transmission. The package gets you to 60 MPH in 5.4 seconds. Correct me...

bobistheoilguy.com

Tested Motor Oil, from Red Line web site:
Red Line 5WT Racing Oil 0W5 grade (their label, not mine)
Phosphorus, Avg PPM 3350
Zinc, Avg PPM 2400
Vis @ 100°C, CSt 4.6
Vis @ 40°C, CSt 21.8
Viscosity Index 134
CCS Viscosity, Poise, @ °C= [email protected]°C
Pour Point, °C -54
Pour Point, °F -65
NOACK Evaporation Loss,1hr @ 482°F (250°C), % 12
HTHS = 1.58

I will provide the comments from the testing labs later.

My guess is that the bearings are aluminum, tin and silicon with a copper base. The high copper is likely mostly corrosive rather than wear.

Water is high as the oil probably did not get very hot to help burn it off. Remember the products of combustion are about half CO2 and half H2O. Humidity is always elevated here and we know that it is an independent factor for wear, it is now controlled on ASTM engine tests.

Regarding the small particles seen on the oil filter. I do not know how much is metal, what type or if some of the particles are gasket material. The Motorcraft oil filter is rated at 50 percent capture of 20 micron particles. 20 microns is the limit we can see with the naked eye. The blot filter paper test was unrevealing and there were no particles even under magnification.

Occasionally the oil idiot light would blink when using Motorcraft 0W20 in my wifes Lamborghini when very hot. I forgot what the pressure guage showed but remember it was unremarkable. I wondered if the light would show up on this truck. It never lit up, if that tells us anything.

One of the purposes of this test run is to compare different labs results on the same oil sample. You may want to comment on this aspect as well as my insanity.

ali

Ali, I applaud your efforts and documentation on your testing, trying to prove your theory. But there are several very concerning data points, and while a UOA is not a valid wear measurement tool, your “wear” metals are so far skewed per 1k mi vs what EcoBoosts normally make, one could reasonably interpret that your engine is definitely not operating as intended with this oil. It appears to confirm that an oil with HTHS nearly 50% below the recommended Xw30 simply cannot protect your engine even in your light usage patterns.

Considering that this is likely a decent snapshot in what happens in all of the engines you do in pursuit of insanely small mileage gains, if any, there’s no way in ell I’d ever buy a vehicle after you owned it. Looking forward to your next UOA with an Xw30 that shows much more reasonable & expected results!

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

"As a former ford tech, the only thing replaced on the 3.5 ecoboost is the cam phasers, and new TTY bolts that’s it. Chains, guides and tensioners are re used."

It looks as they replaced everything to me:

View attachment 138656


Certainly there was also some acid cleaning that went on with this short, 1,059mi OCI, contributing to some of the metals. It reminds me of how Red Line oils often have elevated metals on first use.

When I dropped this 5W oil it was replaced with PZ 0W20 oil. I will also get a UOA on this oil. Later I am planning on going to a 16 grade oil. So we are going to get some long term results.

Ali

So I downloaded the 21N03 recall from my ford tech page that explains to tech what is involved. I had to transfer it to jpeg from pdf. There are 25 pages but had to break it up due to only 10 images allowed. I left the main pages. There is the parts list on there as well of what to replace. Look at the little special note. Also that repair order you posted does not look like a repair order I have ever seen and I have worked at a whole lot of stores. I will find one I have and show you what a warranty written story looks like.

 

[PimTac]

I am surprised to see lead in two of those reports. I thought everyone had done away with it?

 

[kschachn]

Certainly there was also some acid cleaning that went on with this short, 1,059mi OCI, contributing to some of the metals. It reminds me of how Red Line oils often have elevated metals on first use.

Acid cleaning? That’s a new one on me. I’ve never heard of such a thing, is that another term for elevated wear?

Where is this acid coming from?

 

[thescreensavers]

I applaud your experiment but I feel bad for the next owner.

 

[RDY4WAR]

The copper is quite high, however, the aluminum, tin, lead, and silicon content is low to non-existent (silicon is always high in virgin RL oil) which indicates to me that the copper is likely a result of chelation rather than wear. Therefore, that becomes just a "monitor" item to see how it does over subsequent UOAs.

The phosphorus is higher than the zinc which is uncommon to see. Seeing the extra Mo, about double what RL puts in their HP line, I'm going to take a WAG and say it could be from a top treatment of MoDTP. (See: Molyvan L from Vanderbilt Chemical)

The variance in elements between the labs is showing 18% margin of error.

The detergent content is low which makes sens e being a dedicated racing oil. Studies have shown that high amounts of overbased detergents can hinder ZDDP's reactivity and effectiveness. It makes sense that a racing oil would prioritize the AW and FM additives, getting everything else out of the way.

The oil consumption could be from the high amount of ester combined with the low viscosity / high volatility. The ester does a really good job of retaining an oil film on cylinder walls so it could be that more oil is introduced to the chambers as a result. That's not an uncommon phenomenon with RL.

Water is inevitable within an engine. Burning 1 gallon of gasoline produces 1.033 gallons of water as a by-product of the chemical reactions during combustion.

C8H18 + O2 = CO2 + H2O

This comparison between labs shows the limitations of Blackstone's method for measuring water and fuel dilution. Synthetic Advantage and Polaris found more accurate measurements using GC. Blackstone stated 0.0% for water while Synthetic Advantage found 851 ppm (0.0851%) in line with Polaris's <0.1% measurement. Blackstone may just default to 0.0% if it's <0.1% like that. Blackstone showed fuel at 0.5% while GC found it to actually be 1.8%. That's not a remarkable figure but does show the limitations in Blackstone's reports.

All in all, it's a good looking sample. Thanks for sharing.