How Much Oil is Persistant During an Oil/Filter Change in a Lincoln Navigator? UOAs Skewed?

[AEHaas]

This is a different test. When the oil was changed from the Red Line 0W-5 oil (RL’s label, not mine) there were elevated wear numbers (not shown is a UOA of the 20 grade PZ from the 1,600mi mid-sample so as not to confuse the purpose here). Were the elevated numbers real or partly left over from the previous oil? How much oil actually remains in the engine when a “complete” oil and filter change is performed? What type of additional circuits exist in the Lincoln Navigator that are not drained during a routine oil change?

Note that when changing the oil in the Ferrari 812 Superfast you are required to take down the lines and drain the oil cooler. These lines are long and also hold a fair amount of oil as they are around an inch ID.

Somebody suggested I change the oil and get an immediate analysis of the new oil to help determine what is left over from the previous fill. In this test I am showing the original Red Line run that was changed to 0W-20 Pennzoil. This oil had 3,200 miles on it. I then changed it to a PZ 0W-16. UOA was obtained on the 20 grade oil that was drained and 30 miles later another UOA was done on the new 0W-16 oil. The 16 grade oil was not changed, only sampled, as suggested, from a new Fumoto valve. So basically the wear metals are what was left over from the 20 grade oil. The formulation figures do not count as obviously there are differences in the recipe.

Previous detail from here:

Red Line 5W Racing Oil, 2019 Lincoln Navigator 3.5L Turbo, 1,059mi - Oil, 29,000mi - Truck.

The run of this 5W grade oil was 1,059 miles from about 28,000 to 29,000 miles on the truck. According to Red Line the HTHS = 1.58. The J300 has a minimum kinematic viscosity requirement but no HTHS requirement for this grade. The HTHS for an 8 grade oil is 1.7. Half high speed highway and half...

bobistheoilguy.com

Ali

 

[Kira]

the Red Line 0W-5 oil (RL’s label, not mine)

What does that mean?

Trying to decipher a simple event timeline from your paragraphs is difficult.

 

[twX]

The service manual for your vehicle should specify the amount of oil required for an engine rebuild, as well as for a regular oil change. My Subaru takes 5.1 L for an oil and filter change, and 6.0 L for an engine rebuild, so 15% of the old engine oil should still be there after an oil and filter change (or 18% without a filter change). On my Suzuki motorcycle, that figure is 13% (or 26% without a filter change, which is actually only recommended every third oil change).

The iron levels dropping from 14 to 2 in your OCI would be consistent with around 15% of the engine oil remaining in the engine, which seems to be pretty typical. The leftover oil shouldn't be a concern unless the old oil was unusually contaminated. In fact, the leftover oil may actually help reduce wear, since virgin oil doesn't seem to protect as well as oil that has seen some use.

 

[twX]

Regarding the particle count on your Redline UOA, there are a lot of particles in the 4-10 micron range, which are the most damaging particle sizes for an engine. However, this particle count might be pretty typical for all I know.

What model of air filter and oil filter are you using? In the other thread, you mentioned replacing the air filter 4,000 miles before the Redline UOA. For small particle sizes, air filter efficiency goes up dramatically as the filter picks up dust, so these particle sizes might go down a lot with increased use of the air filter. Silicon was high, but that could be the sealants or from the virgin Redline oil. It would be interesting to see an updated particle count at some point, without an air filter change, and with the same model of oil filter used.

Example of small particles penetrating an air filter from new to end of filter life:

 

[AEHaas]

Let me clarify:

Rounded off for ease - at 29,000 vehicle miles the previous Motorcraft 5W-30 (6k run) was removed and the Red Line 0W-5 oil was put into the engine. No UOA of the Motorcraft oil was performed at this time.
The Red Line 0W-5 oil was only run for 1,000 miles and removed from the engine at the 30,000 mile mark. A UOA was performed. The results are in the right hand column.

New Pennzoil 0W-20 was put into the engine and run for the next 3,000 miles. I just removed this oil at the 33,000 mile mark. A UOA was performed on this oil. The results are in the middle column.

The next oil was Pennzoil 0W-16. I only ran this for 30 miles (total truck miles 33,030). At this time I sampled the oil and sent it for UOA - even though it was essentially new in the engine. Left hand column.

I just wanted to see what was left over from the previous 20 grade PZ run of 3k miles.

ali

PS: Stock Motorcraft oil and air filters.

 

[AEHaas]

Someplace I saw a virgin oil analysis of the PZ 0W-20 that showed a moly of 53. Since the UOA sample was almost 250 most of it was left over from the run of the Red Line oil left in the engine after it was drained out.

 

[himemsys]

You could start with Castrol Edge which as 18ppm Titanium. Drain and fill with an oil with no Titanium. Sample and see how much Titanium carried over. Get a percentage and use that percentage to calculate other values.

 

[Revving2Redline]

it sounds like the holidays when you have to go to the restroom and sometimes have to allow yourself a courtesy flush afterwards. it does make sense though. I don't really think you could ever get it all out and what the sump holds compared to what the entire engine holds is enough to make a difference upon analyzation.

 

[Brons2]

Where is all the copper coming from, I don't think the EB uses tri-metal bearings. Chelation of the oil cooler maybe?

 

[Bladecutter]

Looks like the RL 0W-5 was a really poor choice for this engine.

Personally, if I was going through all the trouble to get engine wear out, I would just simply dump the oil, swap the oil filter for a clean one, pour in the new engine oil, run for 30 minutes around town, drain the oil, replace the filter again, and pour in the new oil.

Now you have the cleanest oil possible in the engine for your next normal oil change interval short of taking off the valve covers and spraying everything down with Brakleen, then removing the oil pan, and spraying it out with more Brakleen.

 

[Big_B]

Looks like the RL 0W-5 was a really poor choice for this engine.

Personally, if I was going through all the trouble to get engine wear out, I would just simply dump the oil, swap the oil filter for a clean one, pour in the new engine oil, run for 30 minutes around town, drain the oil, replace the filter again, and pour in the new oil.

Now you have the cleanest oil possible in the engine for your next normal oil change interval short of taking off the valve covers and spraying everything down with Brakleen, then removing the oil pan, and spraying it out with more Brakleen.

The 0w5 oil was designed for a Pro Stock drag car.
The oil temp never gets above 160.
It was NEVER designed for a street car/truck.