To all you Xw-20 doubters out there…

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Been driving Hondas for many years, when they were port injection, ran the reccomended oil, 5k intervals, no problems. Had a 2019 Civic Touring Coupe 1.5t, ran M1 0W-20 AFE, same deal, 5k intervals, UOA's were perfect.
Got a 2020 CRV EX-L 1.5t, started the same regimen, 1st UOA showed thinning out of grade by 3k, oil rising on the stick, rinse and repeat, same deal with the Honda MM showing 60-70%. After consulting my dealer and my service advisor, as well as the Honda Certified Master Technician who always services our cars, they advised going to 0W-30 AFE and changing at 3-3.5k, that they see a LOT of this in CRV's. UOA at 3k shows the 0W-30 thinned below grade at 3k, but still within range of a 0W-20. I'm sure there are a crap-ton of 1.5t's out there with 0W-20, changing at reccomended intervals still running, but an oil thinned below grade at 3k can't be beneficial for long-term durability. So that's my regimen for our 2 CRV's 3.5k intervals with 0W-30 AFE. My theory is the pressurized intake combined with low-tension rings in a naturally cool-running engine is the root cause of the dilution. Lately the Mobil1 0W-30 AFE has been difficult to source so I'm considering switching to M1 5W-30 EP, as it's more easily available locally The 0W-30 actually has a higher base viscosity than the 5W-30 by a small margin but should still work with the shorter intervals I'm doing. Not terribly concerned with low-temperature flow and pump ability with the 5W-30 as temperatures here rarely get below 10f. Belong to another forum where any discussions of CRV's oil dilution issues are immediately shut down as the moderators insist that its no longer an issue as Honda has "solved" it. IMHO, not so much. Honda specs the 1.5t for 5W-30 in many other countries, here, I believe it's all about the CAFE ratings. Have noticed little, if any, change in mpg with the 0W-30.
 
Been driving Hondas for many years, when they were port injection, ran the reccomended oil, 5k intervals, no problems. Had a 2019 Civic Touring Coupe 1.5t, ran M1 0W-20 AFE, same deal, 5k intervals, UOA's were perfect.
Got a 2020 CRV EX-L 1.5t, started the same regimen, 1st UOA showed thinning out of grade by 3k, oil rising on the stick, rinse and repeat, same deal with the Honda MM showing 60-70%. After consulting my dealer and my service advisor, as well as the Honda Certified Master Technician who always services our cars, they advised going to 0W-30 AFE and changing at 3-3.5k, that they see a LOT of this in CRV's. UOA at 3k shows the 0W-30 thinned below grade at 3k, but still within range of a 0W-20. I'm sure there are a crap-ton of 1.5t's out there with 0W-20, changing at reccomended intervals still running, but an oil thinned below grade at 3k can't be beneficial for long-term durability. So that's my regimen for our 2 CRV's 3.5k intervals with 0W-30 AFE. My theory is the pressurized intake combined with low-tension rings in a naturally cool-running engine is the root cause of the dilution. Lately the Mobil1 0W-30 AFE has been difficult to source so I'm considering switching to M1 5W-30 EP, as it's more easily available locally The 0W-30 actually has a higher base viscosity than the 5W-30 by a small margin but should still work with the shorter intervals I'm doing. Not terribly concerned with low-temperature flow and pump ability with the 5W-30 as temperatures here rarely get below 10f. Belong to another forum where any discussions of CRV's oil dilution issues are immediately shut down as the moderators insist that its no longer an issue as Honda has "solved" it. IMHO, not so much. Honda specs the 1.5t for 5W-30 in many other countries, here, I believe it's all about the CAFE ratings. Have noticed little, if any, change in mpg with the 0W-30.
Due to fuel dilution and sheering causing an already thin oil to be a lot thinner after 3k miles, in my opinion, it's a very smart choice to go to a 30 weight oil for extra sheer headroom. 5W-30 spectrum allows for very thin or very thick KV @ 100C viscosities. I prefer a thicker 5W-30 with KV@100C of 11.4 or higher. Thin 5W-30's are nearly 5W-20's in disguise.
 
Sorry I find that sophomoric in nature to believe that a average joe knows more about COF than the mechanical engineers
First, genuinely not sure if you meant it or not, but COF and MOFT are talking about different things.
Second, MOFT is way far away from the average joe. The average joe doesn't even understand a winter rating; there is a lot of valuable information to digest on BITOG, before getting into mechanical engineering or state of the art tribological science. Even then, MOFT is still MOFT, and cold oil is still thick.
 
Sorry I find that sophomoric in nature to believe that a average joe knows more about COF than the mechanical engineers that designed and tested that specific engine for that specific viscosity. Facebook pages and quotes from unverified sources is not reliable. Nor is well my daddy always did it like that so I am going to do the same. We’re moving to thinner oils and tighter tolerances of engine parts. Thicker isn’t always better.
Actually it is your understanding that is sophomoric. Engineers know very well the correlation between MOFT and wear, they take that into serious consideration when designing an engine or updating an existing design to accommodate low-viscosity lubricants. This has nothing to do with Facebook and if that is where you are getting your mechanical design and physics understanding then that probably explains your remarks. Engineers and automakers are spending a fortune designing engines that tolerate lower and lower viscosity lubricants because the return is meeting a higher and higher CAFE requirement. But they are not doing it because the lubricants are better for wear. They are not.

Oh and it isn't tolerances, that again shows your lack of understanding. There are no advantages to thinner oils in an engine except for better fuel economy. They do not lubricate better. MOFT is still king, there is no substitute for keeping moving parts separated by the oil film. This is not a mystery nor is it some sort of quote from an unverified source, avail yourself of the myriad of existing discussions on this board that directly reference scientific papers on wear and HT/HS.

Just a heads-up, the references aren't to UOA.
 
Actually it is your understanding that is sophomoric. Engineers know very well the correlation between MOFT and wear, they take that into serious consideration when designing an engine or updating an existing design to accommodate low-viscosity lubricants. This has nothing to do with Facebook and if that is where you are getting your mechanical design and physics understanding then that probably explains your remarks. Engineers and automakers are spending a fortune designing engines that tolerate lower and lower viscosity lubricants because the return is meeting a higher and higher CAFE requirement. But they are not doing it because the lubricants are better for wear. They are not.

Oh and it isn't tolerances, that again shows your lack of understanding. There are no advantages to thinner oils in an engine except for better fuel economy. They do not lubricate better. MOFT is still king, there is no substitute for keeping moving parts separated by the oil film. This is not a mystery nor is it some sort of quote from an unverified source, avail yourself of the myriad of existing discussions on this board that directly reference scientific papers on wear and HT/HS.

Just a heads-up, the references aren't to UOA.
Still waiting for emperical evidence from a cited source. You keep using antidotes and no evidence other than your own claims. Yes it’s for cafe standards yet how many engines can you say experienced premature failure? If properly maintained? Millions of those cars are on the road. Yet you’re going off your own experience. That is the basis of ignorant actions not that you are but you have come across as one who thinks they’re smarter than those who did the research and development of both the oil and the engine. If it was up to you everyone would be using 10w40 and adding STP to make super thick to keep it slick. Sorry but I use what is recommended in the manual and change the oil as recommended by the manufacturer. So I will continue to use 0W20 as directed.
 
Still waiting for emperical evidence from a cited source. You keep using antidotes and no evidence other than your own claims. Yes it’s for cafe standards yet how many engines can you say experienced premature failure? If properly maintained? Millions of those cars are on the road. Yet you’re going off your own experience. That is the basis of ignorant actions not that you are but you have come across as one who thinks they’re smarter than those who did the research and development of both the oil and the engine. If it was up to you everyone would be using 10w40 and adding STP to make super thick to keep it slick. Sorry but I use what is recommended in the manual and change the oil as recommended by the manufacturer. So I will continue to use 0W20 as directed.
I think the debate here is whether Adequate (0W-20) or Better (5W-30) protection is desired.
It's up to each individual owner to make their own educated decision.
In my opinion (and it's just an opinion), is that following the oil viscosity and oil change interval in your owner's manual is the best way to shorten the life of your engine. If an engineer tells an owner vehicle writer to spec a car at 5W-30 for optimal engine protection, the engineer is likely to be fired as it would cost the automaker millions of dollars in CAFE fines.

The real proof, which I think is what you are looking for, is to google the following: HTHS engine wear graph.
As High Temperature High Sheer (HTHS) gets lower than 2.6, engine wear increases exponentially. HTHS = 2.6 is where 20 weight oil starts out, but it shears to as low as 2.3 during an oil change interval which means more engine wear with 20 weight oils.
 
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Still waiting for emperical evidence from a cited source. You keep using antidotes and no evidence other than your own claims. Yes it’s for cafe standards yet how many engines can you say experienced premature failure? If properly maintained? Millions of those cars are on the road. Yet you’re going off your own experience. That is the basis of ignorant actions not that you are but you have come across as one who thinks they’re smarter than those who did the research and development of both the oil and the engine. If it was up to you everyone would be using 10w40 and adding STP to make super thick to keep it slick. Sorry but I use what is recommended in the manual and change the oil as recommended by the manufacturer. So I will continue to use 0W20 as directed.
Antidotes? Perhaps when you learn to spell I’ll take you more seriously. None of the posts I’ve made are my experience whatsoever, I have no way to determine engine wear due to the oil. That is an expensive, lengthy and complicated test to perform.

You need to learn a bit as I suggested before you continue to make nonsensical posts as you are doing.
 
This is a good thread. From that thread, a Toyota engineer said Toyota uses low efficiency oil filters because they are cheaper to make.


and this 2nd thread is a good thread to see the highest efficiency oil filters (scroll down to see the graphs with the orange line showing the Fram Ultra above 99% efficiency @ 15 microns). Since it has a synthetic filter material, it also has higher flow too.

OK I went through the lengthy second thread and the only OEM filter he tested was an AC Delco which did very well.

The first thread was a joke by the original poster. A he said she said and most comments rebuked his post.

What was interesting is in the "real" world filter efficiency really doesn't matter as much as timely oil changes.

What I've learned in the past is when chasing low micron filtration you are also chasing compromised oil flow.
 
OK I went through the lengthy second thread and the only OEM filter he tested was an AC Delco which did very well.

The first thread was a joke by the original poster. A he said she said and most comments rebuked his post.

What was interesting is in the "real" world filter efficiency really doesn't matter as much as timely oil changes.

What I've learned in the past is when chasing low micron filtration you are also chasing compromised oil flow.
You can have both high efficiency and high flow if you choose an oil filter like the Fram Ultra that has synthetic media.
 
You can have both high efficiency and high flow if you choose an oil filter like the Fram Ultra that has synthetic media.
But does it matter in the real world? How many people keep their vehicles long enough to find out? So you wasted money on expensive oil/filters to send a nice running drive train off to the scrapper?

I have two unopened engines closing in on 300k miles and another near 200k. They run as good as, or better than, when new.

Chasing a fools errand.
 
But does it matter in the real world? How many people keep their vehicles long enough to find out? So you wasted money on expensive oil/filters to send a nice running drive train off to the scrapper?

I have two unopened engines closing in on 300k miles and another near 200k. They run as good as, or better than, when new.

Chasing a fools errand.
Well, given a choice between a thin oil HTHS 2.6 which sheers to HTHS 2.3/10k oil changes/low efficiency OEM oil filters, or
using an Oil with HTHS 3.1,3.2/4k oil changes/Synthetic oil filter with 99%+ @ 20 Microns, I'll choose the later.

I buy 5 Quart jugs and oil filters from Walmart online, and give to my local discount tire place and they do the oil change for me
(labor only charge of $14+tax). I'm able to watch them doing the oil change so I can confirm they really are using the oil and filter I gave them.
Total price similar to just going to Jiffy lube, but with much better oil/filter.

Does it matter in the real world, maybe yes, maybe no. But my main goal is reducing engine wear to 0 so I can keep my vehicles at 0 oil consumption between oil changes. So far it's working.
 
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The one reason I like 5W-30 is because many high performance cars require it as a minimum viscosity.
The way I interpret that is that 20 weight's HTHS of 2.6 would have insufficient wear protection for high revving hot running engines. Otherwise if 20 weight oil was that good, it would be specified in high performance cars.

My own opinion (and it's just an opinion), is that if CAFE didn't exist, every car would be spected for either 5W-30 or 5W-40
since no advantage to 20 weight oils except less CAFE fines.
 
Been driving Hondas for many years, when they were port injection, ran the reccomended oil, 5k intervals, no problems. Had a 2019 Civic Touring Coupe 1.5t, ran M1 0W-20 AFE, same deal, 5k intervals, UOA's were perfect.
Got a 2020 CRV EX-L 1.5t, started the same regimen, 1st UOA showed thinning out of grade by 3k, oil rising on the stick, rinse and repeat, same deal with the Honda MM showing 60-70%. After consulting my dealer and my service advisor, as well as the Honda Certified Master Technician who always services our cars, they advised going to 0W-30 AFE and changing at 3-3.5k, that they see a LOT of this in CRV's. UOA at 3k shows the 0W-30 thinned below grade at 3k, but still within range of a 0W-20. I'm sure there are a crap-ton of 1.5t's out there with 0W-20, changing at reccomended intervals still running, but an oil thinned below grade at 3k can't be beneficial for long-term durability. So that's my regimen for our 2 CRV's 3.5k intervals with 0W-30 AFE. My theory is the pressurized intake combined with low-tension rings in a naturally cool-running engine is the root cause of the dilution. Lately the Mobil1 0W-30 AFE has been difficult to source so I'm considering switching to M1 5W-30 EP, as it's more easily available locally The 0W-30 actually has a higher base viscosity than the 5W-30 by a small margin but should still work with the shorter intervals I'm doing. Not terribly concerned with low-temperature flow and pump ability with the 5W-30 as temperatures here rarely get below 10f. Belong to another forum where any discussions of CRV's oil dilution issues are immediately shut down as the moderators insist that its no longer an issue as Honda has "solved" it. IMHO, not so much. Honda specs the 1.5t for 5W-30 in many other countries, here, I believe it's all about the CAFE ratings. Have noticed little, if any, change in mpg with the 0W-30.
I been running different brands of 0w20 oils to see if any stood out better in our diluter... 2018 1.5 GDIT Honda. There have been a few that started out better than others. Quiet and no gain in the sump at first. Yet at close to 3000mi you could see the oil was dark + seemed to be thinning and smelly. Of course the Honda oil life at 3000mi says 70%! LOL, I think NOT! I think if I ran it to 15% it would be more fuel than oil. So, just sent in a uoa to the the Polaris labs for a change out of 0w20 Castrol Edge. Just 500mi back went to 0w30 Mobil1 Advanced. Liking the M1 already. Wife has right away commented "the car engine seems so quiet now I can't tell its running." Well expecting no miracles , just hoping the 0w30 helps us get to 3500 oci without being so thinned out by then. I realize the different sound is likely from the step to 0w30 vs 0w20 and not the oil brand. Just trying different little things as the wife always likes to keep her cars a very long time. The last one (Honda Accord 2002) she had was 18 years old. I am very sure she wont be driving the current one any 18 to 20 years. It will either die or they will have taken our driver's licenses away due to age by then!;)
 
I been running different brands of 0w20 oils to see if any stood out better in our diluter... 2018 1.5 GDIT Honda. There have been a few that started out better than others. Quiet and no gain in the sump at first. Yet at close to 3000mi you could see the oil was dark + seemed to be thinning and smelly. Of course the Honda oil life at 3000mi says 70%! LOL, I think NOT! I think if I ran it to 15% it would be more fuel than oil. So, just sent in a uoa to the the Polaris labs for a change out of 0w20 Castrol Edge. Just 500mi back went to 0w30 Mobil1 Advanced. Liking the M1 already. Wife has right away commented "the car engine seems so quiet now I can't tell its running." Well expecting no miracles , just hoping the 0w30 helps us get to 3500 oci without being so thinned out by then. I realize the different sound is likely from the step to 0w30 vs 0w20 and not the oil brand. Just trying different little things as the wife always likes to keep her cars a very long time. The last one (Honda Accord 2002) she had was 18 years old. I am very sure she wont be driving the current one any 18 to 20 years. It will either die or they will have taken our driver's licenses away due to age by then!;)
To control fuel dilution, you could try a Euro A3/B4 5W-30 oil with HTHS of 3.5 and guaranteed stay in grade for long drain intervals.
A good one is Castrol Euro 5W-30 A3/B4 - 5 quart jug available on Amazon for $31:

 
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