I wonder if the valves were adjusted, and how many times
To all you Xw-20 doubters out there…
- Thread starter RobbyDawg
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That’s antidotal evidence
I only run what the manufacturer says to.
Before the switch to 20 wt. SAE (I believe) required the engine wear could not exceed specified values at 200K miles. They needed to make it 150K miles. Subaru's FA20 engine produces 205HP as NA and 250+HP on Turbo. Internals are identical. The turbo requires 30 wt and the NA specifies 20 wt.
There really is no argument that there is less wear with 30 wt. oil. But the 20 wt will do the job. Having said that I use 30 wt in my NA Subaru engine.
There really is no argument that there is less wear with 30 wt. oil. But the 20 wt will do the job. Having said that I use 30 wt in my NA Subaru engine.
Do you really need to know? 5w-20 came out in 2002. Whenever the car was made the viscosity rules… Ford would love you to change, the car is out of warranty. So… Is the engine today made for the viscosity in the OM.
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Which is exactly my point. Some of us, me included, go against manufacturers specs thinking that 20wt is “too thin” to properly protect an engine. This is evidence (if ANECDOTAL) that this is not the case.
Only had 1 car go the distance on a 20 grade oil, that was a 2017 Crosstrek with a CVT. And it wasnt happy on it making all kinds of racket when hot. That distance was 90K miles without burning oil or loss of gas mileage. Then it was traded.
Nothing else made it without excessive oil usage or significant loss of power and fuel mileage.
I think my 2011 Honda Fit sport would have made it, but it was killed by LiquiMoly Oil Additiv and possibly an over enthusiastic driver.
Nothing else made it without excessive oil usage or significant loss of power and fuel mileage.
I think my 2011 Honda Fit sport would have made it, but it was killed by LiquiMoly Oil Additiv and possibly an over enthusiastic driver.
I use 5W-30 Penzoil Platinum high mileage with a HTHS of about 3.1/3.2 with 4k mile oil change Intervals.
I also use Fram Ultra Synthetic Oil and Air Filters with an efficiency of 99%+ @ 20 Microns.
My vehicles are speced for 20 weight oils, but I won't ever use a 20 weight oil or a low efficiency Oil or air filter.
It will be interesting to study the engine wear of the new Toyota dynamic force engines which are all speced for 0W-16 with 10k mile oil change intervals with the low 50% efficiency Toyota oil filters and the low oil pressure oil pumps. So far, no issues reported (as it's very early in the life of those vehicles), but just as a personal decision, I will avoid any of those vehicles with over 100k miles vehicles in the used car market.
Nearly every car sold in the US that is speced for a 20 weight or 16 weight oil in the US (so automakers can avoid CAFE fines from the US government), the same exact engine is speced in Europe for 30 or even 40 Weight oils. So we are free to do what people in Europe are free to do: use oils with a higher High Temperature / High Sheer number for optimal engine wear protection (not just adequate engine wear protection).
I also use Fram Ultra Synthetic Oil and Air Filters with an efficiency of 99%+ @ 20 Microns.
My vehicles are speced for 20 weight oils, but I won't ever use a 20 weight oil or a low efficiency Oil or air filter.
It will be interesting to study the engine wear of the new Toyota dynamic force engines which are all speced for 0W-16 with 10k mile oil change intervals with the low 50% efficiency Toyota oil filters and the low oil pressure oil pumps. So far, no issues reported (as it's very early in the life of those vehicles), but just as a personal decision, I will avoid any of those vehicles with over 100k miles vehicles in the used car market.
Nearly every car sold in the US that is speced for a 20 weight or 16 weight oil in the US (so automakers can avoid CAFE fines from the US government), the same exact engine is speced in Europe for 30 or even 40 Weight oils. So we are free to do what people in Europe are free to do: use oils with a higher High Temperature / High Sheer number for optimal engine wear protection (not just adequate engine wear protection).
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Where are we studying engine wear?
Yes but the correlation between MOFT and wear is not anecdotal.
Much less antidotal.
I no longer buy used or rental cars. I don't want one that's been run on anything less than xx-30.
That's the best 1 liner I've ever read on BITOG website. 100% agree.
toyotanation forum to see posts about engine wear for high mileage Toyota ran on 0W-16 with 10k oil change intervals and Toyota low efficiency filters. Also, I check Consumer Reports Magazine (I have a subscription) to check repair history of Engine Major/Engine Minor issues on these vehicles. Like I said, no evidence yet, but I'll be keeping an eye on this (out of curiosity) over the next decade.
In my opinion, following the "oil viscosity/oil change interval" in your owner's manual is the best way to shorten the life of your engine.
If a car company engineer tells a owner's manual writer to spec the car for 5W-30, he would likely lose his job as the decision would cost the automaker million of dollars in CAFE fines.
If a car company engineer tells a owner's manual writer to spec the car for 5W-30, he would likely lose his job as the decision would cost the automaker million of dollars in CAFE fines.
Bill7. Do you have some documentation I can read up on the Toyota low efficient (50%) filters? I'm really interest because I only use OEM filters.
This is a good thread. From that thread, a Toyota engineer said Toyota uses low efficiency oil filters because they are cheaper to make.
and this 2nd thread is a good thread to see the highest efficiency oil filters (scroll down to see the graphs with the orange line showing the Fram Ultra above 99% efficiency @ 15 microns). Since it has a synthetic filter material, it also has higher flow too.
Toyota OEM Oil Filter Efficiency
Well, I am gonna open up a can of worms. I may be criticized and made fun of but that's ok. Check out what I found out about Toyota's OEM filter efficiency. I have access to an Engineer at Toyota as he comes to my church when he is in town. He works in US and has been to Japan several times...
bobistheoilguy.com
and this 2nd thread is a good thread to see the highest efficiency oil filters (scroll down to see the graphs with the orange line showing the Fram Ultra above 99% efficiency @ 15 microns). Since it has a synthetic filter material, it also has higher flow too.
Would you all like to see ISO 4548-12 Oil Filter Lab Testing Comparison, Efficiency & Capacity, Pressure vs Flow, Bubble Point, and Burst?
In this case efficiency did not get significantly better over time and exhibit that behavior. The "Hockey Stick" is demonstrated in the deltaP Curve vs Time. The Medium Test Dust was injected at approximately 2.1-2.2grams every five minutes for each filter. It will all be explained in the video...
bobistheoilguy.com
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Sorry I find that sophomoric in nature to believe that a average joe knows more about COF than the mechanical engineers that designed and tested that specific engine for that specific viscosity. Facebook pages and quotes from unverified sources is not reliable. Nor is well my daddy always did it like that so I am going to do the same. We’re moving to thinner oils and tighter tolerances of engine parts. Thicker isn’t always better.
Can you provide an example of the “tighter tolerances of engine parts”?
I haven't seen any evidence of tighter tolerances - same engines speced in Europe for 5W-30/5W-40.
We're moving to thinner oil so automakers can avoid CAFE fines at the expense of engine wear.
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