To all you Xw-20 doubters out there…

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I will start by saying I normally run 5w-30 in my Sierra which calls for 0w-20. Not looking to start yet another thick vs thin argument. But had to share this.

I came across this group on FB:https://www.facebook.com/groups/938184509942736/?ref=share&mibextid=S66gvF

One post was about an almost million mile Accord, run it’s whole life on 5w-20, and mostly Mobil 1 at 15k intervals: https://www.driveaccord.net/threads...TYp5sI7jMPwQ5jVPG868CMlYoV8PG_yXywWa9LbfBDTYA
That’s antidotal evidence
I only run what the manufacturer says to.
 
Before the switch to 20 wt. SAE (I believe) required the engine wear could not exceed specified values at 200K miles. They needed to make it 150K miles. Subaru's FA20 engine produces 205HP as NA and 250+HP on Turbo. Internals are identical. The turbo requires 30 wt and the NA specifies 20 wt.

There really is no argument that there is less wear with 30 wt. oil. But the 20 wt will do the job. Having said that I use 30 wt in my NA Subaru engine.
 
But what about Ford back specking my '93 F150 to 5w-20 when the sticker under the hood (and OM) says 10w-30? Is that OK? I really need to know.
Do you really need to know? 5w-20 came out in 2002. Whenever the car was made the viscosity rules… Ford would love you to change, the car is out of warranty. So… Is the engine today made for the viscosity in the OM.
 
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That’s antidotal evidence
I only run what the manufacturer says to.
Which is exactly my point. Some of us, me included, go against manufacturers specs thinking that 20wt is “too thin” to properly protect an engine. This is evidence (if ANECDOTAL) that this is not the case.
 
Only had 1 car go the distance on a 20 grade oil, that was a 2017 Crosstrek with a CVT. And it wasnt happy on it making all kinds of racket when hot. That distance was 90K miles without burning oil or loss of gas mileage. Then it was traded.

Nothing else made it without excessive oil usage or significant loss of power and fuel mileage.

I think my 2011 Honda Fit sport would have made it, but it was killed by LiquiMoly Oil Additiv and possibly an over enthusiastic driver.
 
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I use 5W-30 Penzoil Platinum high mileage with a HTHS of about 3.1/3.2 with 4k mile oil change Intervals.
I also use Fram Ultra Synthetic Oil and Air Filters with an efficiency of 99%+ @ 20 Microns.

My vehicles are speced for 20 weight oils, but I won't ever use a 20 weight oil or a low efficiency Oil or air filter.

It will be interesting to study the engine wear of the new Toyota dynamic force engines which are all speced for 0W-16 with 10k mile oil change intervals with the low 50% efficiency Toyota oil filters and the low oil pressure oil pumps. So far, no issues reported (as it's very early in the life of those vehicles), but just as a personal decision, I will avoid any of those vehicles with over 100k miles vehicles in the used car market.

Nearly every car sold in the US that is speced for a 20 weight or 16 weight oil in the US (so automakers can avoid CAFE fines from the US government), the same exact engine is speced in Europe for 30 or even 40 Weight oils. So we are free to do what people in Europe are free to do: use oils with a higher High Temperature / High Sheer number for optimal engine wear protection (not just adequate engine wear protection).
 
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It will be interesting to study the engine wear of the new Toyota dynamic force engines which are all speced for 0W-16 with 10k mile oil change intervals with the low 50% efficiency Toyota oil filters. So far, no issues reported, but I will avoid any of those "0W-16" Toyota's with over 100k in the used car market in the future.
Where are we studying engine wear?
 
I use 5W-30 Penzoil Platinum high mileage with a HTHS of about 3.1/3.2 with 4k mile oil change Intervals.
I also use Fram Ultra Synthetic Oil and Air Filters with an efficiency of 99%+ @ 20 Microns.

My vehicles are speced for 20 weight oils, but I won't ever use a 20 weight oil or a low efficiency Oil or air filter.

It will be interesting to study the engine wear of the new Toyota dynamic force engines which are all speced for 0W-16 with 10k mile oil change intervals with the low 50% efficiency Toyota oil filters. So far, no issues reported, but I will avoid any of those "0W-16" Toyota's with over 100k in the used car market in the future.
I no longer buy used or rental cars. I don't want one that's been run on anything less than xx-30.
 
Where are we studying engine wear?
toyotanation forum to see posts about engine wear for high mileage Toyota ran on 0W-16 with 10k oil change intervals and Toyota low efficiency filters. Also, I check Consumer Reports Magazine (I have a subscription) to check repair history of Engine Major/Engine Minor issues on these vehicles. Like I said, no evidence yet, but I'll be keeping an eye on this (out of curiosity) over the next decade.
 
In my opinion, following the "oil viscosity/oil change interval" in your owner's manual is the best way to shorten the life of your engine.
If a car company engineer tells a owner's manual writer to spec the car for 5W-30, he would likely lose his job as the decision would cost the automaker million of dollars in CAFE fines.
 
Bill7. Do you have some documentation I can read up on the Toyota low efficient (50%) filters? I'm really interest because I only use OEM filters.
 
This is a good thread. From that thread, a Toyota engineer said Toyota uses low efficiency oil filters because they are cheaper to make.


and this 2nd thread is a good thread to see the highest efficiency oil filters (scroll down to see the graphs with the orange line showing the Fram Ultra above 99% efficiency @ 15 microns). Since it has a synthetic filter material, it also has higher flow too.

 
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Yes but the correlation between MOFT and wear is not anecdotal.

Much less antidotal.
Sorry I find that sophomoric in nature to believe that a average joe knows more about COF than the mechanical engineers that designed and tested that specific engine for that specific viscosity. Facebook pages and quotes from unverified sources is not reliable. Nor is well my daddy always did it like that so I am going to do the same. We’re moving to thinner oils and tighter tolerances of engine parts. Thicker isn’t always better.
 
Sorry I find that sophomoric in nature to believe that a average joe knows more about COF than the mechanical engineers that designed and tested that specific engine for that specific viscosity. Facebook pages and quotes from unverified sources is not reliable. Nor is well my daddy always did it like that so I am going to do the same. We’re moving to thinner oils and tighter tolerances of engine parts. Thicker isn’t always better.
Can you provide an example of the “tighter tolerances of engine parts”?
 
Sorry I find that sophomoric in nature to believe that a average joe knows more about COF than the mechanical engineers that designed and tested that specific engine for that specific viscosity. Facebook pages and quotes from unverified sources is not reliable. Nor is well my daddy always did it like that so I am going to do the same. We’re moving to thinner oils and tighter tolerances of engine parts. Thicker isn’t always better.
I haven't seen any evidence of tighter tolerances - same engines speced in Europe for 5W-30/5W-40.
We're moving to thinner oil so automakers can avoid CAFE fines at the expense of engine wear.
 
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