The new 2024 Subaru Crosstrek calls for 0w-16.

[DirectRejection]

Are there any actual wear tests of a 0w16 vs a “straight” 16? I don’t believe there’s any publicly available wear tests with this level of detail. If you’ve got some white papers or something on tests that would be cool.

There is nothing.

Ravenol did at one time market a 5W16.

The HPL Premium Plus Series combines ultimate cold start ability with shear stability.

"Start up wear" has a mystical status.

It is all logical presumption, with nothing empirical, but I am seeing great results in approaching 90k miles of usage.

I would defintely be checking the dipstick daily with a Subaru on 0W16.

 

[ZeeOSix]

0w16 and 0w8 are so dang thin even at winter temps; why wouldn’t oil mfrs just go to a straight grade 8 & 16? Why add all the VIIs to get “-40*C” performance when it’s still significantly thinner than any Xw20?

You don't see any 5W-8, but there are a few 5W-16 oils. Hard to say what the W rating would come in at if the oil was a straight 8 or 16 grade - only CCS and MRV tests would say. Could be that a 5W-16 is nearly or 100% VII free, and they label it as a 5W because it can meet that W grade.

 

[Al]

I’m not saying 0w40s not a valid choice, but I’d go with the 10wXX to reduce the VIIs that could be sheared by that chain. I’ve used both but there’s no need for a 0wXX anything in southern Florida

Probably true. I changed to 0W-40 in my XT and 5W-40 in my '22 Limited. Not really a valid comparison but we'll see what the uoa's show. I am comparing both at the same mileage the lighter oils were sampled. I then intend to run them both out to 12qK miles if appropriate. I have the 20K mileage Titanium filters in both.

 

[twX]

Some in depth discussions on VII and HTFS (High Temp Full Shear) viscosity.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...sv-friction-and-wear-state-of-the-art.310319/

Thanks for posting this. I happened to recently read the study discussed in that thread but was unaware of that thread.

I found another recent study that had similar findings, Shear rates in engines and implications for lubricant design. Here's a nice figure from that study comparing a high-VII 5W-30 HDEO and a low-VII 15W-40 HDEO.

 

[twX]

"Start up wear" has a mystical status.

It is all logical presumption, with nothing empirical, but I am seeing great results in approaching 90k miles of usage.

There are some good studies that show much higher rates of wear during engine warm up. There is no evidence in these studies that any of this wear is from the initial start up while the engine is still building up oil pressure, so start-up wear isn't really the right term for it.

The higher rates of wear during engine warm up seem to be largely unrelated to oil viscosity. From this study, there was no difference in cold-engine piston ring wear rates between 0W-10, 5W-30, and 10W-40 oils with identical additive packages (GG, AA, and FF oils at 650 rpm, 40% throttle, and cold engine).

 

[DirectRejection]

There are some good studies that show much higher rates of wear during engine warm up. There is no evidence in these studies that any of this wear is from the initial start up while the engine is still building up oil pressure, so start-up wear isn't really the right term for it.

The higher rates of wear during engine warm up seem to be largely unrelated to oil viscosity. From this study, there was no difference in cold-engine piston ring wear rates between 0W-10, 5W-30, and 10W-40 oils with identical additive packages (GG, AA, and FF oils at 650 rpm, 40% throttle, and cold engine).

View attachment 164319

I am surprised that the real concern with rings is not when they get good and hot. Thank you very much for the report !

 

[nicholas]

I’ve had a 2015 Crosstrek for about 8 years and have always used 0w-20, but always contemplating going with 5w-30. Now Subaru recommends 0w-16 for 2024.

I’m in South Florida full time. Would you use their recommendation of 0w-16 or stick with 0w-20?

Sure, engineers know best and all that…

Thanks.

If you did mostly short trip driving the 16 would be fine.
Otherwise I'd go no lower than a 20 weight.
Maybe even a 30....florida gets dang hot in the summer.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The higher rates of wear during engine warm up seem to be largely unrelated to oil viscosity. From this study, there was no difference in cold-engine piston ring wear rates between 0W-10, 5W-30, and 10W-40 oils with identical additive packages (GG, AA, and FF oils at 650 rpm, 40% throttle, and cold engine).

The "2000/wot" data doesn't seem to correlate with all the tables that summarize the wear rates at these conditions. Did they mistakenly swap the "2000/wot" data with the "4000/wot" data in this figure (?). In all the tables the wear rates are higher at 4000/wot.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There are some good studies that show much higher rates of wear during engine warm up. There is no evidence in these studies that any of this wear is from the initial start up while the engine is still building up oil pressure, so start-up wear isn't really the right term for it.

This study pretty much shows that there is increased wear during the warm-up period from start-up. If wear increases as the coolant and oil temperature is decreased, then it's only logical that increased wear is happening between a cold start-up and during the warm-up phase of the engine.

The study also concludes (no surprise) that increase ring and cylinder wear occurs from higher HP output and increased RPM. Beat an engine like it's a race car most of its life and it will wear out faster than if it was driven around in a benign way.

 

[Revving2Redline]

I live in the mildest of climates. The chief benefit for me is very minimal start up wear, per se.

which is great,unless you stop and start your car in severe operating application. I would still rather live in the Arctic and drive thirty miles than Cuba where it's humid and only drive ten. Humidity is a killer if it's not boiled off. We are having a hot streak here in Kansas and I'm already looking for white tailed bucks and fall season.

 

[kschachn]

The higher rates of wear during engine warm up seem to be largely unrelated to oil viscosity. From this study, there was no difference in cold-engine piston ring wear rates between 0W-10, 5W-30, and 10W-40 oils with identical additive packages (GG, AA, and FF oils at 650 rpm, 40% throttle, and cold engine).

Which would make perfect sense to me.

 

[DirectRejection]

which is great,unless you stop and start your car in severe operating application. I would still rather live in the Arctic and drive thirty miles than Cuba where it's humid and only drive ten. Humidity is a killer if it's not boiled off. We are having a hot streak here in Kansas and I'm already looking for white tailed bucks and fall season.

Ten years plus of UOAs have taught me that my driving conditions are easy on oil.

I hope you get your buck, friend.

 

[thunderous1335]

Yeah this is just Subaru playing stupid games for fuel economy reasons. No reason to ever go below 5w30 for a boxer engine

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Yeah this is just every manufacturer playing stupid games for fuel economy reasons. No reason to ever go below 5w30 for any engine.

FIFY

 

[TiGeo]

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

FIFY

Yea enough of this woke bull crap. My granddaddy ran 5w-30, and his granddaddy, and his granddaddy before him. **** millennials these days don’t know what they’re doing

 

[TiGeo]

Yea enough of this woke bull crap. My granddaddy ran 5w-30, and his granddaddy, and his granddaddy before him. **** millennials these days don’t know what they’re doing

You misspelled that your granddaddy/granddaddies all used 10W40 and would have never used 5W30, that was some CAFE woke thinnie fightin' words back then. "5W....I mean, that's basically water and this ol' girl (slapping hood of 1969 Chevelle that did 0-60 in about the same time as my son's Ford Focus) will send a piston through the hood on that stuff. The gov won't tell me what to do!" - granddaddy

 

[kschachn]

Typical ending to a thick vs. thin thread, a bunch of nonsense posted against technical data.

 

[mt23]

I would like to see one of these engines run on HPL 0w16 and see how much the engine consumes over time.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

You misspelled that your granddaddy/granddaddies all used 10W40 and would have never used 5W30, that was some CAFE woke thinnie fightin' words back then. "5W....I mean, that's basically water and this ol' girl (slapping hood of 1969 Chevelle that did 0-60 in about the same time as my son's Ford Focus) will send a piston through the hood on that stuff. The gov won't tell me what to do!" - granddaddy

With every generation, oils and masculinity get thinner and weaker. CAFE is a big conspiracy to erode the fabric of our society and slowly push people to hYbRiDs and EleCtRiC “cars”