The new 2024 Subaru Crosstrek calls for 0w-16.

[hardcore302]

By 2035 they'll have them running 0W-01

0W-00. C'mon, man!

 

[Al]

10w30 in south Florida and never think twice about it.

0W-40 in PA. and never think twice about it.

 

[DirectRejection]

Also you are just not changing your oil often enough.

Gotta go...

 

[ZeeOSix]

It will be down to 1000 miles in another month.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

0W-40 in PA. and never think twice about it.

I’m not saying 0w40s not a valid choice, but I’d go with the 10wXX to reduce the VIIs that could be sheared by that chain. I’ve used both but there’s no need for a 0wXX anything in southern Florida

 

[JavierH19]

Are they laughing at the results of over a decade of use in Japan?

You mean where almost all new cars will accrue only around 15-70k kilometers during the 6-10 year ownership period before being sold off to be exported to some 3rd or 2nd world country like Africa or Russia because of Japans silly tax on cars once they hit 6 years of age. Leaving only a tiny amount of "high“ mileage (even 100k kilometers is still nothing) samples from the get go and an even smaller sample size since they typically disappear to a country where the new owners will ignore what's on the cap and dump 20w-50 in. Yeah what about it.

I'm tired of this "but Japan". Who cares. The cars there are hardly driven and get shipped away with new car smell still lingering. Those cars could get literal sae 0 oil like what maxima makes for drag racers and it wouldn't matter.

Found this within a minute. Here's a virtually brand new Jdm 2017 Lexus still breaking in at only 19,034k km or 11,827 miles already being dumped and shipped internationally because it's too old by Japanese government standards.

https://carused.jp/car-list/detail/toyota/others/DAA-GWZ100/VGI00023

https://asianews.network/russia-ukraine-conflict-buffeting-japans-used-car-market/

https://blog.japanesecartrade.com/334-africa-the-largest-market-for-japanese-used-vehicles/?amp=1

 

[kevperro]

I’ve had a 2015 Crosstrek for about 8 years and have always used 0w-20, but always contemplating going with 5w-30. Now Subaru recommends 0w-16 for 2024.

I’m in South Florida full time. Would you use their recommendation of 0w-16 or stick with 0w-20?

Sure, engineers know best and all that…

Thanks.

I'd go with the 5W-30 personally. Let other people sacrifice themselves on the alter of 0.1% fuel economy gains.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

Are they laughing at the results of over a decade of use in Japan?

Some BITOGer’s wife probably brought up a thick vs thin debate so now the entire forum feels inadequate running 0w-20”

 

[TiGeo]

 

[loneryder]

By my count this is about the eighth or ninth "thick vs. thin" vs. CAFE thread in about a week. Most have the side of "engineers know best".

Surely one of those threads or one of the previous 300 before them contain an answer?

So this should be a research site not a public discussion forum??

 

[Revving2Redline]

If I remember many of those Subaru engines are horizontally moving internals. I would recommend 10w20 by @High Performance Lubricants 0w30 Amsoil SS by @Pablo or the new Redline HP 0w20 with a 5% noack and 2.9hths. In a Walmart aisle...grab Mobil 1 0w30.

 

[SavetheRimBrake]

So this should be a research site not a public discussion forum??

You say that as if being both is somehow mutually exclusive

 

[cheesepuffs2]

Are they laughing at the results of over a decade of use in Japan?

One thing I'll say about this is that in Japan they tend to keep their cars for way, way less mileage than we do in North America. Cars are considered by most Japanese owners to be used up pretty quickly. So while Japanese engineering prowess is generally very good, I still wouldn't lean on Japanese usage as the test bed to assume that it'll also work as well here.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

I’m not saying 0w40s not a valid choice, but I’d go with the 10wXX to reduce the VIIs that could be sheared by that chain. I’ve used both but there’s no need for a 0wXX anything in southern Florida

Hasn't it been established that there are two different types VIIs and that they largely don't have any detrimental effect?

 

[twX]

Hasn't it been established that there are two different types VIIs and that they largely don't have any detrimental effect?

There are several types of VII, and some perform better at high shear rates. The issue with high-VII oils is that even if the oil doesn't shear permanently to a lower viscosity, it will still experience more temporary shear in parts of the engine where the oil experiences high shear rates.

A 0W oil will tend to have a lower HTHS than a 10W. However, even if a 0W and a 10W have the same HTHS, when shear rates are even higher than the shear rates that are defined for the HTHS measurement, the 0W oil will experience more shear thinning. The oil in the areas of the piston rings and cam lobes with will experience these very high shear rates, and so the 10W oil will have higher viscosity in these areas and will provide better protection in these areas. In fact, often a 10W-30 will often outperform a 0W-40 or even a 5W-40 at very high shear rates, even if the HTHS of the 10W-30 is somewhat lower.

 

[ZeeOSix]

There are several types of VII, and some perform better at high shear rates. The issue with high-VII oils is that even if the oil doesn't shear permanently to a lower viscosity, it will still experience more temporary shear in parts of the engine where the oil experiences high shear rates.

A 0W oil will tend to have a lower HTHS than a 10W. However, even if a 0W and a 10W have the same HTHS, when shear rates are even higher than the shear rates that are defined for the HTHS measurement, the 0W oil will experience more shear thinning. The oil in the areas of the piston rings and cam lobes with will experience these very high shear rates, and so the 10W oil will have higher viscosity in these areas and will provide better protection in these areas. In fact, often a 10W-30 will often outperform a 0W-40 or even a 5W-40 at very high shear rates, even if the HTHS of the 10W-30 is somewhat lower.

Some in depth discussions on VII and HTFS (High Temp Full Shear) viscosity.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...sv-friction-and-wear-state-of-the-art.310319/

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Hasn't it been established that there are two different types VIIs and that they largely don't have any detrimental effect?

There are more than 2 types, and there are some VIIs that are very prone to shear, there are types that are more resistant to shear, and there are types that are nearly shear proof.

As a WAG, I would say that any 0w40 that only has API specs would be most likely to shear the most; ACEA or German/Euro spec 0w40s would be more shear resistant, and then many of the non-shelf-stock oils use the very robust star VIIs and would be the most resistant.

But like we’ve discussed, ~90% of the contiguous US market will never “need” a 0wXX oil, even though it’s marketed as if your engine will meet a quick demise without it. Marketing works!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

0w16 and 0w8 are so dang thin even at winter temps; why wouldn’t oil mfrs just go to a straight grade 8 & 16? Why add all the VIIs to get “-40*C” performance when it’s still significantly thinner than any Xw20?

 

[DirectRejection]

0w16 and 0w8 are so dang thin even at winter temps; why wouldn’t oil mfrs just go to a straight grade 8 & 16? Why add all the VIIs to get “-40*C” performance when it’s still significantly thinner than any Xw20?

I live in the mildest of climates. The chief benefit for me is very minimal start up wear, per se.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I live in the mildest of climates. The chief benefit for me is very minimal start up wear, per se.

Are there any actual wear tests of a 0w16 vs a “straight” 16? I don’t believe there’s any publicly available wear tests with this level of detail. If you’ve got some white papers or something on tests that would be cool.