The cost of living in 2024....

The costs of 'higher education' has been high for a long time but the 'government guaranteed loan program' really made things much worse cost wise. Colleges realized they could charge whatever they wanted and the taxpayers would guarantee the loans. Many of these colleges and universities have huge 'endowments' and could have kept costs down but chose the path of greed IMO. Of course the OP could have had his daughter take big 'student loans' many of which are now being 'forgiven', but, like me, he paid for his daughters education and is now paying for others education too.

PS: I think it's disgraceful that those wealthy colleges and universities with huge 'endowments' aren't being required to help pay off student loans and instead leave it on the shoulders of the taxpayers. It's also disgraceful that no two people pay the same amount for the same degree.
 
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I'm on my last of three daughters putting them through private college. Cost was high but with great grades about the same price as going through a SUNY school. 2 already graduated working in Manhattan have there own separate apartments. College paid off for them making fantastic money living the good life need zero help from me. There pay stubs stun me sometimes I had to kill myself to make what they make with tons of risk. My girls make me proud they put in the effort and college paid off for them. One is in finance working for Morgan Stanley other works for Paramount. My little one has one more year going for education I'm hopeful it pays off for her. They will have no student loans my wife and I sacrificed we are blessed that we can do that for them.
 
Yep, I seem to get reminded daily about how what I do can easily be outsourced. Maybe not daily but it does feel like a sword hanging over my head. Engineers in other countries cost a lot less.

24 years designing PCB's for semiconductor test. At some point I need to find a different path--I like playing with electronics but clearly it won't pay the bills in the future.

I've spoke of it before, my wife is a senior business analyst and works for a firm that specializes in helping companies be more efficient or stay afloat in their business operations. I can't mention the company, but her firm is assisting moving the computer programing operations from the U.S. to the UK.
 
I've spoke of it before, my wife is a senior business analyst and works for a firm that specializes in helping companies be more efficient or stay afloat in their business operations. I can't mention the company, but her firm is assisting moving the computer programing operations from the U.S. to the UK.
Why UK and not India?
 
How to finance many years of post-secondary education:

My parents were not wealthy. But they paid for a large part of my first year of university and a tiny part of the second year. I worked hard at my studies and won a large scholarship that paid for most of the 3rd and 4th years. And I always had good summer jobs. I finished that first degree with high honours (great distinction), a good car and money in the bank.

I worked for a year as an engineer and my new wife and I saved half of my income. Because I had done well in the first degree, I won a major scholarship for post graduate studies in Engineering. That paid for my Master's program (and simultaneous pre-med classes).

During Medical School my wife and I lived frugally. My wife had low paying but interesting jobs. When I finished Medical School we still had money in the bank.

I spent a decade as a family physician/general practitioner and then went on to specialty training.

Post graduate (specialty) training in medicine pays a living income for hard work and horrible hours (90+ hour work weeks). You primarily work in the hospital taking care of patients and learn along the way. Those 5 years of hard work and study paid for themselves.

So that’s how you finance years and years of post-secondary education. Was it all planned out in advance? Absolutely not. Was it worth it? Absolutely. I enjoyed most of it and had a fine career. The only disadvantage was “no money” until I was 30 years old.
Yes, and no.

Your method worked when tuition was reasonable.

But tuition has increased by, on average, 9%/year for the past few decades, vastly exceeding inflation. Dramatically distorting the relationship between wages and tuition.

So, where tuition for medical school was once less than the price of an average new car, it is now, on average, $60,000. Harvard, as an example, is $72,000. Tuition alone. One still has to live, so, add another $15,000-20,000 for very frugal living expenses.

You and your wife had low paying jobs and were able to pay the tuition. That simply is not possible today. There is no “low paying” job that allows you to support a $100,000/year tuition and living expense bill. Your method is fantasy in today’s world.

My oldest daughter graduated medical school in 2019. My youngest is a first year medical student. All six kids went to college, and all six graduated without debt, thanks to parental support and sacrifice.

But the game has changed. Changed so much that your method does not work.
 
Engineer's with a few exceptions don't make anywhere near what most people think. I know as I'm a PE.
I was an engineer for 10 years (even one with a PE) and stopped being one due to low wages and frequent unemployment (think getting hired for a construction job and laid off when it's done). That and constantly moving.
 
Well, following the pandemic - some were excited to work from home - later, only to find that “remote” was just a next step to send their job overseas for less … They got cut …
 
I do hope that her pay will increase quite quickly as she gains more experience. Otherwise her career choice must’ve been driven by emotion rather than future prospects.
There is a lot of BS flying around about following one’s passion or dreams and unfortunately that resonates quite well with women. No wonder female college participation is over 60% now when compared to males.
 
Well, following the pandemic - some were excited to work from home - later, only to find that “remote” was just a next step to send their job overseas for less … They got cut …
The WSJ ran a piece last week about "remote work" moving to the UK because it was even cheaper than hiring people who lived in what we would consider low cost of living (Ex, Alabama, Miss) areas in the US.
 
The WSJ ran a piece last week about "remote work" moving to the UK because it was even cheaper than hiring people who lived in what we would consider low cost of living (Ex, Alabama, Miss) areas in the US.
UK is a bit surprising - Folks obviously mentioned India - but “remote” administrative work has moved to S America as well …
 
Yeah I don't get UK. And I work for a company that is setting up remote offices in India, while having facilities in S. America and several places in Europe. Nothing against the UK, it's just that, software programming, I would have thought India first.

All comes down to cost, although I think some are learning that cost and quality are sometimes at odds with one another. Not always. There's also the time zone problem. The other day I was having a quick chat with someone in India, when I wished them a good... morning? afternoon? they told me it was 1245am. I get it, some are night owls but I'm starting to think that being a part of a global company means there is an expectation that you are willing to work global hours (aka 'round the clock).

That is behind a firewall. Got a synopsis?
 
Hillbilly Deluxe, when I said "you" can't count the other expenses beyond tuition I was referring to the collective "you" for discussion sake. But since "you" can and do count everything to come up with the approximate $130k that it cost for your daughter to get the degree, I still have to ask: Did she/you research the prevailing wages in her desired field along with the cost of living in the potential areas where she was likely to find work ?

Or was it just a matter of her wanting an education in that field and everyone going forward on a wing and a prayer with the hopes that it all world work out by the time she graduated ?

In either case, it doesn't sound like it was money well spent unfortunately.
 
My niece graduated nursing school first year with overtime time working nights made $128 k. Her starting salary was $99k. St Francis hospital Nassau county NY. She's on her second year there.
OMG, FANTASTIC, one of the best heart hospitals in the nation and the one you want to be in if you live anywhere in the NY Metro area.
I have immediate family history there of two quadruple heart by-passes.

First was my dad gosh decades ago and most recently my brother 15 years ago at most. Brother still with us but still never improved his eating habits and just hanging in there now. Both of them went in there a bit of a train wreck and came out great but my dad so long ago modern medicine wasn’t were it is now and he lived a few years after. Can’t remember maybe 7. My brother so far around 15 years, never changed his eating habits but modern medicine has him still going not sure how much longer.

It’s why because of those two I am what my sister says the polar opposite (and so crazy in the forum about proper eating) in the way I eat and take care of myself. So far I’m the only male to be keeping hereditary heart disease at a min with no intervention needed and no diabetes yet at this age in my life. I’m the youngest and learned so much from them, a survivor I see myself because of what they went though and inability or determination to change their eating habits, though I think my dad more than brother. Modern medicine makes many too comfortable and they take it for granted instead of a gift for a second chance.

What a great career your niece has, best of the best and more. The staff there is amazing.
I’m passionate about the heart and that hospital, wish I knew more when I was young. Would love to be a part of a place like that.

Boy your posts at times have awfully close connections to my life on Long Island, including the bay we boated in and towns we lived. It’s cool to read I loved growing up and spending most my adult life there, wouldn’t have wanted anyplace else not traded it for anything in the world until I felt time to move on.

Ugh … another long post, I am sure your nieces family is very proud.

(Come to think of it, it would be very freaky if one of my best friends since the day we were born till we moved south 16 years ago daughter maybe a nurse there. I can’t remember if that was it, he told me a while back but … we lightly keep in touch)
 
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Yeah I don't get UK. And I work for a company that is setting up remote offices in India, while having facilities in S. America and several places in Europe. Nothing against the UK, it's just that, software programming, I would have thought India first.

All comes down to cost, although I think some are learning that cost and quality are sometimes at odds with one another. Not always. There's also the time zone problem. The other day I was having a quick chat with someone in India, when I wished them a good... morning? afternoon? they told me it was 1245am. I get it, some are night owls but I'm starting to think that being a part of a global company means there is an expectation that you are willing to work global hours (aka 'round the clock).


That is behind a firewall. Got a synopsis?
"
LONDON—When Margot Robbie hosted a pool party at the Barbie Dreamhouse in last year’s hit film, she was thousands of miles away from sunny Malibu, on a soundstage in a commuter town about an hour outside of London.

“Barbie” was mostly filmed at Warner Bros.’ U.K. studios, the flashiest example yet of Britain’s rising role in global film production. “I want Hertfordshire to be the next Hollywood,” U.K. Treasury chief Jeremy Hunt told a newspaper here last year.

It isn’t just films. American businesses are sending all types of work across the Atlantic, drawn by depressed U.K. salaries, tax incentives and a weak currency. This isn’t the traditional outsourcing model of the 2000s, which saw the mass relocation of American manufacturing jobs to China, or call centers to India and other parts of the developing world.

Instead, the U.K.’s cost advantage has collided with the rise in remote work to allow high-skilled jobs—software developers, consultants, lawyers, film producers—to be done by people in Britain.

“In the old models of outsourcing you’d give the outsourcing company the boring work. But there’s the new breed of outsourcing that is cheaper but also often creative,” said Matt Buckland, who spent two decades as a tech recruiter in the U.K. for companies including
. “You might still give your team in Hyderabad basic Python code. In the U.K. you might give them AI.”


Surging wages and staff shortages in the U.S. are further incentives to look across the pond.

The average salary for a back end software developer in the U.S. is near $130,000, though closer to $175,000 in cities such as San Francisco and New York, according to data from global recruitment agency Robert Half. In the U.K., a developer’s average salary is about $66,000.

The cost of living explains only part of the gap. Software developers in Cleveland—one of the poorest major U.S. cities—can outearn peers in London by about $40,000, according to Robert Half’s data. Roles in finance, accounting and marketing have similar trans-Atlantic pay gulfs.

“The strength of the [U.S. economy] over the last 15 years has pushed wages up and made it more attractive to offshore,” said Nick Bloom, a Stanford University economics professor who studies outsourcing. “If you’re based in New York or San Francisco it’s now going to be cheaper to offshore to northern England than to Mississippi or Alabama.”

JPMorgan Chase says it is the largest tech employer in Scotland and recently built a new hub in Glasgow to house thousands of employees working on technologies including machine learning. Asset-management giant BlackRock is in the process of expanding its office space in the Scottish capital of Edinburgh, which houses tech-support teams and an artificial-intelligence lab.

Danny Lopez, chief executive of cybersecurity software firm Glasswall, said nearly all of his software engineers are based in the U.K. even though 90% of the company’s revenue comes from the U.S. Having a cheaper U.K. cost base makes his business more competitive in the U.S. market, he said.

“It is exponentially more expensive to hire in the U.S.,” said Lopez. “It really wouldn’t be realistic to move 50 engineers to the U.S. For a company of our size, it would have a huge financial impact.”

"
“This U.S. is such an exciting economy for us because it’s the largest consulting market in the world,” said Adrian Bettridge, a managing partner at Baringa. “We can develop so much expertise in the U.K. on things like payments, climate change, risk modeling and go and share it with a market that’s 20 to 30 times bigger than ours.”

The pound’s sharp drop in value has played a crucial role by making it cheaper to hire U.K. companies, according to Deutsche Bank strategist Shreyas Gopal. Sterling has lost 15% of its value against the dollar since the 2016 Brexit referendum.

To be sure, U.K. wages have also climbed amid the inflation surge and chronic labor shortages, but off a lower base.

Edward East runs an influencer marketing firm, Billion Dollar Boy, with 150-plus staff between offices in London, New York and New Orleans, and a client list that includes Amazon.com, Meta Platforms and L’Oreal. The company’s U.S. billings surged 88% in its last financial year and now make up nearly half of its global revenue. Its U.S. contracts are on average six times larger than those in the U.K., he said. Despite the booming American business, he continues to focus on hiring in the U.K., where labor costs are cheaper by about half compared with New York. “It definitely helps us offer a more cost-effective solution to clients than our U.S. peers,” he said. Cost is just one of many factors that makes the U.K. attractive as an offshoring hub. The time zone, common language and similar education system are bonuses, business owners say.

Structural trends also play a role: The insurance industry, for example, has been boosted by the restructuring of global supply chains and demand for specialty policies covering natural disasters or pandemics, areas in which the London insurance market has expertise.
The U.K. studio where “Barbie” was filmed, originally an aircraft-production site during World War II, stayed busy last year with shooting for a “Beetlejuice” sequel, set to be released this year. Amazon and Netflix are also expanding studio space in the U.K.

Jay Rosenwink, an executive at Warner Bros. in the U.K., said salaries in the country are lower and labor contracts aren’t as strict as in the U.S., where many film-industry workers are part of powerful unions. The country’s appeal also includes a tax credit, which allows film productions to claw back around 25% of their budget. Warner Bros. plans to add 400,000 square feet and 10 new sound stages to its studio outside of London by 2027. “The U.K.’s competitive edge is that it is fundamentally cheaper than the U.S. That’s a fact,” Rosenwink said."
 
I think a great part of the appeal to US companies offshoring work to London has to do do with the common culture/language there vs say offshoring to India.

If the offshore requires setting up a subsidiary in London with frequent, and possibly longer visits by US executives and middle managers to London then I would expect little to no resistance from the US based employees. Many (most?) US college graduate hires would gladly volunteer to be transferred to England to work for a few years if offered. Move to India, not so much…

Tell those same US employees that they have to go to India and stay there for a week or two or a few months and many will say no.

This was my experience, we tried to set up a small manufacturing site in India and to keep it in compliance with US regulations it required frequent on-site visits for process transfers and quality inspections. You could maybe get someone to go there once but you could never get them to go back. The native born Indian employees went. It didn’t work out, quality issues we could not resolve, site lasted a few years.
 
Wow, lots of excellent points here that hit the mark, and numerous ones that are misconceptions about college education and universities. Before the 1980's +/-, funding for state universities was MUCH higher from the tax coffers, so in essence it seemed more affordable AND we were supporting higher education with our tax money. Now, we are still supporting the universities with tax money, but in a less direct manner.

The bottom line is that U.S. higher education is way out of whack in the many aspects described above. I also think that the average Joe could get an education at more moderate cost IF you are willing to avoid the bells and whistles. We are an entitled populace.
 
Wow, lots of excellent points here that hit the mark, and numerous ones that are misconceptions about college education and universities. Before the 1980's +/-, funding for state universities was MUCH higher from the tax coffers, so in essence it seemed more affordable AND we were supporting higher education with our tax money. Now, we are still supporting the universities with tax money, but in a less direct manner.

The bottom line is that U.S. higher education is way out of whack in the many aspects described above. I also think that the average Joe could get an education at more moderate cost IF you are willing to avoid the bells and whistles. We are an entitled populace.
I dont disagree BUT, colleges, like any institution including government will suck up all the money that is available and become wholly inefficient burning through money with no explanations due. Bloated administration salaries, off the freaking scale professor salaries, promotional products, fancy buildings and landscaping.
So to me, your post is the source of the problem, they have too much money for nothing. As long as the public and taxpayer pays costs will go up, as soon as the taxpayer stops paying and as soon as the prospective STUDENTS and their families stop believing the college that they are choosing is in some way magical over a trade school is the day cost will come down.
If you keep feeding the college money, they will continue to burn through it and if you are a student that paid, well, you are responsible for yourself that you didnt spend your money wisely.

THE ONE AND ONLY REASON U.S. higher education is out of whack is you paid it. (not you personally)
You are correct, average JOE can do way better for an education. It's the bells and whistles that immature students and family choose a college and associated costs that go with it. (this stuff drives me nuts when they start whining about it *LOL*)

I hate to use this as an example because to me Clemson U is a bargain for colleges in the USA and one I would highly recommend. Not only that but a low cost state.
Professors make as low as $150,000 to $300,000 for a 9 month salary plus perks

The President of Clemson makes just shy of 1 million a year plus perks and the taxpayers pay over $300,000 of that.

These costs are off the charts, heck, kids could get the same education in an abandoned old high school building, it's just the American way, overspend on everything to brag about something that is meaningless. Feed the machine, heck, kids even choose colleges based on where their friends go! GO figure, forget the career path, chose the party and football team, yay!

It IS WHY foreign students do so well in USA colleges and why colleges want them, because they take studying and a career path seriously and acknowledge the sacrifices their families made back in their respective countries. (dont ask me how I know) It makes them sick on what many (by no means all) USA students do with their college education.
 
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