The cost of living in 2024....

Yes, and no.

Your method worked when tuition was reasonable.

But tuition has increased by, on average, 9%/year for the past few decades, vastly exceeding inflation. Dramatically distorting the relationship between wages and tuition.

So, where tuition for medical school was once less than the price of an average new car, it is now, on average, $60,000. Harvard, as an example, is $72,000. Tuition alone. One still has to live, so, add another $15,000-20,000 for very frugal living expenses.

You and your wife had low paying jobs and were able to pay the tuition. That simply is not possible today. There is no “low paying” job that allows you to support a $100,000/year tuition and living expense bill. Your method is fantasy in today’s world.

My oldest daughter graduated medical school in 2019. My youngest is a first year medical student. All six kids went to college, and all six graduated without debt, thanks to parental support and sacrifice.

But the game has changed. Changed so much that your method does not work.
I agree with most of your comments. Costs have increased a lot, and low paying jobs now pay a smaller fraction of university costs.

But then again I didn't attend any Ivy League schools. The annual tuition at my Medical College for Canadian students is currently about $20,000 Cdn. The annual tuition at my Engineering College for Canadian students is currently just over $10,000 Cdn.

In Canada a degree is a degree, and you can go anywhere here with a degree from any reputable Canadian university. I've hired over a dozen physicians and the only time I wondered about a degree was when I became suspicious that the candidate didn't actually have one (my suspicions being confirmed by his later behaviour).

I'm also told that (almost) no-one pays the full cost of attending an American university. There is always some grant, studentship, or partial scholarship to significantly cut the costs.
 
I don't disagree on the part about college being too much, but I am the first to graduate college in my family. My father and both BIL's (much older than me) were tradesman. So I learned their trades as a young man.

First issue - you need an apprenticeship. There aren't enough to go around. Usually there given to children or current employees children. They don't want to give them to others because they figure they will invest a bunch into them and they will leave as soon as they can - so you can't blame them.

Second issue - when your 55 and your knees are shot and your back is shot - good luck making a living then.

Third issue - the only way to make consistent good money is get on with a Union (very limited) or open your own business. Being a good tradesman and a good businessman are very different skills.

Its really easy for someone who has no direct connection to the trades, to tell other people to send their kids to trade school.
 
I'm also told that (almost) no-one pays the full cost of attending an American university. There is always some grant, studentship, or partial scholarship to significantly cut the costs.
"Many people finance their education by taking on debt. Thirty percent of all adults—representing more than 4 in 10 people who went to college—said they took out student loans for their education.52 This includes 21 percent of college attendees who still owed money on outstanding loans ("student loan borrowers") and 21 percent who borrowed but fully repaid their education debts."

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publ...ouseholds-in-2022-higher-ed-student-loans.htm
 
Colleges invest in the infrastructure that potential students and mostly parents want for their little precious. When my daughter was visiting NE colleges and taking the tours offered to prospective students it became obvious what the colleges felt that parents and students valued. Now that colleges are trying to sell and attract mostly female students it has probably gotten worse.

We saw all the newest dorms with all their bells and whistles pointed out. Next in line were the bathrooms in those dorms, especially if it was a women’s dorm the bathrooms bordered on luxury at some of the New England colleges. Next came the gym. No, not that gym where the sports were played but the students luxurious workout gym where they could go at night and show off their newest Lululemons or whatever was in style.

We then saw the cafeteria which had all morphed into food courts - Wendy’s, Chinese, vegetarian (usually two of those) a chicken place that was closed on Sunday, Starbucks and other well known fast food companies and off in the far corner was the food service offering by the college food service itself. Most food plans only covered food from the college food service but all the students ate from the fast food. The peer pressure to not eat at the college’s food cafeteria was enormous.

We never were shown the science buildings, classrooms or the library. I had to insist we visit them on our own.
 
My 2yr associates of science in mechanical engineering technology cost me $12K in 1989-1991 and that was dorming there, meal plan, etc. My Bachelors of science in business management (of all things) was paid for by my employer 10yrs later. I'm still with that employer today. My first "career" job out of college was something like $23K/year and I was living pretty good with a decent car and apartment and paid my student loan off in 2yrs.

Those were the good old days when things were reasonable.
 
OMG, FANTASTIC, one of the best heart hospitals in the nation and the one you want to be in if you live anywhere in the NY Metro area.
I have immediate family history there of two quadruple heart by-passes.

First was my dad gosh decades ago and most recently my brother 15 years ago at most. Brother still with us but still never improved his eating habits and just hanging in there now. Both of them went in there a bit of a train wreck and came out great but my dad so long ago modern medicine wasn’t were it is now and he lived a few years after. Can’t remember maybe 7. My brother so far around 15 years, never changed his eating habits but modern medicine has him still going not sure how much longer.

It’s why because of those two I am what my sister says the polar opposite (and so crazy in the forum about proper eating) in the way I eat and take care of myself. So far I’m the only male to be keeping hereditary heart disease at a min with no intervention needed and no diabetes yet at this age in my life. I’m the youngest and learned so much from them, a survivor I see myself because of what they went though and inability or determination to change their eating habits, though I think my dad more than brother. Modern medicine makes many too comfortable and they take it for granted instead of a gift for a second chance.

What a great career your niece has, best of the best and more. The staff there is amazing.
I’m passionate about the heart and that hospital, wish I knew more when I was young. Would love to be a part of a place like that.

Boy your posts at times have awfully close connections to my life on Long Island, including the bay we boated in and towns we lived. It’s cool to read I loved growing up and spending most my adult life there, wouldn’t have wanted anyplace else not traded it for anything in the world until I felt time to move on.

Ugh … another long post, I am sure your nieces family is very proud.

(Come to think of it, it would be very freaky if one of my best friends since the day we were born till we moved south 16 years ago daughter maybe a nurse there. I can’t remember if that was it, he told me a while back but … we lightly keep in touch)
We have much in common growing up on the south shore of long island. It definitely was a blessed life growing up there. When my dad moved to Bellmore in 1969 his family was extremely upset with him for moving out to the country and not going from Greenpoint Brooklyn to Middle village Queens like the rest of them did.
 
@alarmguy

I think we are in 100% agreement. My 1980's statement was that state universities used to be funded more through tax money and less on personal tuition. Now, states contribute MUCH less tax money to universities and the universities have grossly ramped up tuition rates to compensate. Families are paying more out of pocket to attend college AND in indirect ways are still paying high taxes to support public universities (debt. forgiveness is not free).

I work at a large university. Everything you say about university bloat is correct, and more. It's beyond ridiculous . Yet, many universities have far more applicants than they can admit (supply/demand). Are we, the public at fault for supporting this?? To beat my chest like others here, my kids initially lived at home and attended community college before moving on/up.
 
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Colleges invest in the infrastructure that potential students and mostly parents want for their little precious. When my daughter was visiting NE colleges and taking the tours offered to prospective students it became obvious what the colleges felt that parents and students valued. Now that colleges are trying to sell and attract mostly female students it has probably gotten worse.

We saw all the newest dorms with all their bells and whistles pointed out. Next in line were the bathrooms in those dorms, especially if it was a women’s dorm the bathrooms bordered on luxury at some of the New England colleges. Next came the gym. No, not that gym where the sports were played but the students luxurious workout gym where they could go at night and show off their newest Lululemons or whatever was in style.

We then saw the cafeteria which had all morphed into food courts - Wendy’s, Chinese, vegetarian (usually two of those) a chicken place that was closed on Sunday, Starbucks and other well known fast food companies and off in the far corner was the food service offering by the college food service itself. Most food plans only covered food from the college food service but all the students ate from the fast food. The peer pressure to not eat at the college’s food cafeteria was enormous.

We never were shown the science buildings, classrooms or the library. I had to insist we visit them on our own.

I visited both my younger brother's and sister's dorm, none of them was what I would call close to luxury. My sister's dorm was 2-person shared rooms, shared bathrooms between two rooms, and the rooms that didn't have a bathroom attached had to use the hallway bathrooms. My brother's dorm was was one step above a cesspool.
 
My kids dorms. Year 1 - freshman dorm - basically a 10x10 room with bunks shared by two, with a bathroom between that and the next room - so 4 people, one bath. They actually built a brand new dorm with this setup this year. Apparently it cost a lot more but its new. Was around $5K a semester a couple years ago - realize a semester is about 18 weeks or so, does not include the meal plan.

A slightly upgraded version - 4 people and 2 baths with a tiny kitchen - essentially a 4 bedroom apartment - is about $6K a semestser.
 
@alarmguy

I think we are in 100% agreement. My 1980's statement was that state universities used to be funded more through tax money and less on personal tuition. Now, states contribute MUCH less tax money to universities and the universities have grossly ramped up tuition rates to compensate. Families are paying more out of pocket to attend college AND in indirect ways are still paying high taxes to support public universities (debt. forgiveness is not free).

I work at a large university. Everything you say about university bloat is correct, and more. It's beyond ridiculous . Yet, many universities have far more applicants than they can admit (supply/demand). Are we, the public at fault for supporting this?? To beat my chest like others here, my kids initially lived at home and attended community college before moving on/up.
Thanks for your input, even more credibility from you being you work at one.
If the public will pay the institutions will take, It’s sickening but most the public is out to lunch and they spend just like our institutions.
Look at the national debit that we vote for. 35 trillion and counting, rodents are better behaved.

My responsible daughter is more sickened, worked her way through Clemson from her first day of college for four years. Of course we paid our fair share but she NEVER asked us for spending money, always proud to not ask.
No spring breaks while her friends did, holiday breaks she took as the chance to make even more more working.

When she graduated she had a manageable student loans with our help “matching funds” to the extra principal payments she was making every month based on an amortization sheet I printed up for her.
Good paying job but still driving an older clean car, hand me down good used cell phone she was debt free in slightly less than 5 years.

No sooner does that happen and a public official is elected promising student loan forgiveness, it disgusts her. Her own friends were loading up debt, spring breaks, travel, luxuries, once school was done the stories started rolling in about her friends, massive debits, ya da ya da.
I’m so proud of all my kids, maybe not the richest but they cal and always will know how to survive and be proud.

We are becoming a weak nation as the strong are survivors, non dependents on a system.
 
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I visited both my younger brother's and sister's dorm, none of them was what I would call close to luxury. My sister's dorm was 2-person shared rooms, shared bathrooms between two rooms, and the rooms that didn't have a bathroom attached had to use the hallway bathrooms. My brother's dorm was was one step above a cesspool.
My kids dorms. Year 1 - freshman dorm - basically a 10x10 room with bunks shared by two, with a bathroom between that and the next room - so 4 people, one bath. They actually built a brand new dorm with this setup this year. Apparently it cost a lot more but its new. Was around $5K a semester a couple years ago - realize a semester is about 18 weeks or so, does not include the meal plan.

A slightly upgraded version - 4 people and 2 baths with a tiny kitchen - essentially a 4 bedroom apartment - is about $6K a semestser.
So part of the problem is increased expectations from the masses. In my day, there was a community shower/bathroom for the entire floor. There was a single line cafeteria, not a food court. What was o.k. decades ago is no longer acceptable. It cost more money to run dorms with higher bathroom/occupant ratio.

My point is that not all the blame is on universities bloated spending. Our increased standard of living costs more.
 
So part of the problem is increased expectations from the masses. In my day, there was a community shower/bathroom for the entire floor. There was a single line cafeteria, not a food court. What was o.k. decades ago is no longer acceptable. It cost more money to run dorms with higher bathroom/occupant ratio.

My point is that not all the blame is on universities bloated spending. Our increased standard of living costs more.
My dorm almost 30 years ago also had the community bath in the hall. I think I prefer that, a janitor cleaned it once in a while :)

We also had the single line cafeteria - and it was 100 times better than the fast food slop they serve now. My kids never used their meal plan - the lines were far too long. In my day you got a tray. You grabbed a few things you could get yourself, a lady slopped one of 2 main dishes on a plate, and the lady at the counter literally checked a box on a paper card to signify you used one more meal that week. Last day of the week you traded that card for next weeks. Heaven help you if you lost yours.

I don't disagree, but is it because the population is demanding it, or they colleges know they can get it due to unlimited student loans? During the pandemic they pumped "stimulus" money into the colleges. Why did they need Stimulus - where else were the students going to go?
 
So part of the problem is increased expectations from the masses. In my day, there was a community shower/bathroom for the entire floor. There was a single line cafeteria, not a food court. What was o.k. decades ago is no longer acceptable. It cost more money to run dorms with higher bathroom/occupant ratio.

My point is that not all the blame is on universities bloated spending. Our increased standard of living costs more.
No it’s not the universities fault, it’s the fault of those who borrow the money to pay it and then complain.
Universities, products and services will charge whatever the public is willing to borrow and pay. Who can blame them?

I’m pretty sure cost really got out of hand when the government took over the student loan program. We know how efficient that can be.

To avoid getting into politics, simply do your own search on the subject of = when did the federal government take over the student loan program

That is when the disaster started to unfold.
People are like rodents and worse, yet life in the USA has never been better and more cushy in the history of mankind.
 
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When I was an engineering student in the late 60s/early 70s for the first 2 years I lived off campus sharing a bedroom in a Board and Room home. That's what people did in those days. Living on campus was too expensive.

My first year of university in 1967/68 cost $1100 all in (tuition, books, instruments, room and board and a very small amount of spending money.) That's the inflation adjusted equivalent of $9900 today. My roommate and I walked about a half mile to classes.

I loosened up in the second year and spent $1250 ($10,700 today).

After the second year I was awarded a scholarship of $800 a year for the final 2 years ($6600/year today). As I no longer had to worry so much about money, for the 3rd and 4th years I shared an apartment with 2 other students.
 
No it’s not the universities fault, it’s the fault of those who borrow the money to pay it and then complain.
Universities, products and services will charge whatever the public is willing to borrow and pay. Who can blame them?

I’m pretty sure cost really got out of hand when the government took over the student loan program. We know how efficient that can be.

To avoid getting into politics, simply do your own search on the subject of = when did the federal government take over the student loan program

That is when the disaster started to unfold.
People are like rodents and worse, yet life in the USA has never been better and more cushy in the history of mankind.
+1

Plus tuition reimbursement via state lotteries.

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No it’s not the universities fault, it’s the fault of those who borrow the money to pay it and then complain.
Universities, products and services will charge whatever the public is willing to borrow and pay. Who can blame them?

I’m pretty sure cost really got out of hand when the government took over the student loan program. We know how efficient that can be.

To avoid getting into politics, simply do your own search on the subject of = when did the federal government take over the student loan program

That is when the disaster started to unfold.
People are like rodents and worse, yet life in the USA has never been better and more cushy in the history of mankind.
Oh man, how true your statement is above. We're at the point of beating a dead horse, but today I spoke with a co-worker that graduated college around 2008 with a modest student loan and he just received loan forgiveness. The story he told me was enlightening. I assumed that college loan forgiveness equaled "get out of jail free". No, according to my discussion today.

His loan program was started by republican administration, so finger pointing should be in both directions (lets not proceed further). He was in a program to assist those that go into lower paying public service jobs. He (young/naive)says he was lured into student loans by the promises , but admitted it was his responsibility and choice. Once "hooked" the huge interest rates simply multiplied the problem and the program was beyond huge mismanagement by our government. Many/most of the loan forgiveness has restrictions, i.e., one must have been making payments for at least 10 to 25 years to qualify. My coworker said that his payments barely paid down the principle due to high interest. He basically paid for his college education and was now paying several times over due to high interest rates. That's his story. My attitude regarding "get out of jail free" has changed a bit. This reminds me of the housing loan debacle of the late 2000's. Lots of blame to go around.

EDIT: the chart/graph above is eye opening. Certainly NOT the good old days.
 
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We need to ask why? Lack of motivation? Habits , drinking beer smoking Joints and watching the Tv instead of taking classes to improve ones self then improve ones worth in the marketplace? I volunteered for m a year and a half picking up food donated by the big grocery store chains . One day I went in when they were handing out food and saw at least 80% of the people driving nicer cars than I, lots of tats and smoking. I accept that I have made mistakes over my life time yet I keep on trying to improve and not keep on repeating the same mistakes.
You don't get to choose your parents. By the time you realize what you were taught and shown during the formative years of your life was complete crap it can be an uphill climb to get out. If you have a parent that works and pays attention to you you’re doing well. If you have two parents that model hard work and show an interest in you you’re living in the big time.
 
I don't disagree on the part about college being too much, but I am the first to graduate college in my family. My father and both BIL's (much older than me) were tradesman. So I learned their trades as a young man.

First issue - you need an apprenticeship. There aren't enough to go around. Usually there given to children or current employees children. They don't want to give them to others because they figure they will invest a bunch into them and they will leave as soon as they can - so you can't blame them.

Second issue - when your 55 and your knees are shot and your back is shot - good luck making a living then.

Third issue - the only way to make consistent good money is get on with a Union (very limited) or open your own business. Being a good tradesman and a good businessman are very different skills.

Its really easy for someone who has no direct connection to the trades, to tell other people to send their kids to trade school.
I see zero issues with someone with no direct connection with the trades to at least suggest it to someone as a career. Everyone is hiring. Many guys are retiring and thus leaving positions open. Good pay, good career, zero college debt. Not everyone is cut out for college and/ or a desk job. I fit that crowd.

Around here in the electric world, everyone is hiring apprentices and journeymen. Lots of work in the area too. My employer pays for school and does a very good job of making people want to stick around.

I can’t comment on the knee or back issue since I’m only 32. I personally feel better doing what I do now as opposed to how I felt with my ~8-10 hour a day desk job. I know a lot of older guys who are doing fine. The key is to take care of yourself. Some do and some don’t regardless of job.

I am not union and make consistent good money with vacation and holiday pay. I am not bashing the union as we work with union guys of different trades all the time. I will say there’s more money in commercial than residential as a non business owner. I did residential for a year. Learned a lot. Wasn’t for me.
 
We have much in common growing up on the south shore of long island. It definitely was a blessed life growing up there. When my dad moved to Bellmore in 1969 his family was extremely upset with him for moving out to the country and not going from Greenpoint Brooklyn to Middle village Queens like the rest of them did.
My friend's dad never finished high school, yet he was able to buy a house in Baldwin, raise 5 kids, and wife never worked. They were generous people, gave me a 1970 LeMans Sport for free. Worked for the utility for about 40 years, until an on the job accident happened and they sued and won against the BMW dealer in Brooklyn. After the lawyers took their cut it was still over 1 mil tax free, in the mid 90's.

What got me at the time is my buddy's two brothers told the dad, we want our money now. From the settlement. And he gave it to them. Kinda funny the old school giving kids things when they are grown. Maybe today, kids are given even more, dunno. The other story was when his sister had a fender bender and took the car to Joey Buttafucco's shop to get an estimate. She said she felt like he was hitting on her.

My point is today you can come out of college and say your first job pay's $100,000, a nice round number. Can you buy a 5 bedroom house in a working class suburb? How about if dropping out of college? I would argue, it should be possible. like it was in the 70's. Not every kid is able to gain entry into a college that accepts 3.6% of applicants (those who do have no debt and an elite degree when they are done).
 
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