Q: About today's Mobil 1 0W-40 line up

[burbguy82]

The running joke for years now has been that old Corvette guys all wear white New Balance shoes and jean shorts

That is funny in so many ways. My dad who was a Corvette To Cadillac guy wore the most awful tube socks with the double stripe of whatever color at the top....these salmon color short shorts.....a green collared shirt, and tennis shoes, i think NB maybe Reebok.

I reckon you are a vette guy?

 

[Hohn]

remember, dave recently recommended to: in freezing temps, in a new diesel, start it and drive, no warm ups!

What are you suggesting by this episode where Dave made the correct recommendation?

 

[burbguy82]

What are you suggesting by this episode where Dave made the correct recommendation?

The correct recommendation? I am suggesting that his recommendation is dumb. And that it is not correct.

In his video, he suggested no warmup time at all, key in, and drive.

That might work for guys in warmer climates but guy who wake up to below freezing temps, nah, terrible advice.

Of course i am not saying let it idle for 30minues every morning, but 5 minutes to take the chill out of the cab is a much better idea.

 

[Patman]

That is funny in so many ways. My dad who was a Corvette To Cadillac guy wore the most awful tube socks with the double stripe of whatever color at the top....these salmon color short shorts.....a green collared shirt, and tennis shoes, i think NB maybe Reebok.

I reckon you are a vette guy?

I’m on my fourth Corvette (a 2018 that I custom ordered new and will never sell!) I bought my first one in 1991 right out of college (it was a 1984 model) and have also had a 98 and an 05. So I’m not the typical Vette guy who just buys one as a midlife crisis thing I have been a fan since before I got my drivers license.

 

[Hohn]

This helps me keep track.

View attachment 265554

If you all will forgive me for taking a thread back to its ostensible purpose--

What do you make of the higher Magnesium in the new SP FS that is all but absent from the other variants? I'm thinking the C40 is basically a track oil that won't hold up very long on the road (lowest PDSC).

So I'd eliminate the C40 because of the low PDSC, eliminate the SP FS because it's essentially a 30wt in practice (and has no ester anymore).

Then you have to toss out Supercar for the same reason of shearing down and I think I'm left with X3 by default. At least if you are running a 40 grade expecting an actual 40 grade. You just can't push OCI with the PSDC of it like you probably could with the SP FS.


The SP FS would last longer, but why would you want to extend OCI on an oil that's shearing so fast? :SJ's rationale for switching away from the shear-prone FS to the 30 grade HPL makes sense when you consider the old formula sheared to 30 grade almost instantly anyway.

 

[johnmyster]

The correct recommendation? I am suggesting that his recommendation is dumb. And that it is not correct.

In his video, he suggested no warmup time at all, key in, and drive.

That might work for guys in warmer climates but guy who wake up to below freezing temps, nah, terrible advice.

Of course i am not saying let it idle for 30minues every morning, but 5 minutes to take the chill out of the cab is a much better idea.

14:55 - "proper warmup times, proper warmup procedures." Proper this, proper that. Proper because someone on youtoob said so.

At the other end of the spectrum, you've got this nitwit dealer master tech that all the diesel bros want to follow. He's kinda the next dave. He insists the modern diesel truck is so glass fragile you've got to put it on fast idle until everything gets to operating temperature before you can drive it. Apparently all that harmful stuff that happens before you get to operating temperature doesn't happen if the gear selector is in park. This guy's nonsense is what I believe dave was trying to counter.



The whole topic is overblown. I don't think the takeaway from Dave was that you need to get the truck moving as soon as the key hits the ignition. I do think the takeaway is that if you idle cold, you'll have more fuel in your crankcase and you might want to adjust your OCIs accordingly.

I would think the best practice is to put it into gear and gently go about your business once lubrication has reached all moving parts. Oil temperatures (crankcase) lag so far behind coolant temperatures in diesels that it's going to take some serious idle time to make thermal progress otherwise. Idle EGT is what, 320 F?

 

[Hohn]

The correct recommendation? I am suggesting that his recommendation is dumb. And that it is not correct.

In his video, he suggested no warmup time at all, key in, and drive.

That might work for guys in warmer climates but guy who wake up to below freezing temps, nah, terrible advice.

Of course i am not saying let it idle for 30minues every morning, but 5 minutes to take the chill out of the cab is a much better idea.

We'll agree to disagree then. There's no such thing as beneficial cold idling. At best it is only mildly harmful to the engine and you're trading off human comfort for engine wear. Start, give it 5-10 seconds for oil to get to the top, and drive gently.

EDIT: ON second thought, there's not really such a thing as beneficial WARM idling either. (ask someone who has been inside a cop car engine). THe only condition where idling is net helpful is cooling down a hot engine after a hot run like a major hill climb (towing) or a track day or a drag racing run.

 

[billt460]

We'll agree to disagree then. There's no such thing as beneficial cold idling. At best it is only mildly harmful to the engine and you're trading off human comfort for engine wear. Start, give it 5-10 seconds for oil to get to the top, and drive gently.

EDIT: ON second thought, there's not really such a thing as beneficial WARM idling either. (ask someone who has been inside a cop car engine). THe only condition where idling is net helpful is cooling down a hot engine after a hot run like a major hill climb (towing) or a track day or a drag racing run.

That is what I have always heard.... Especially so with Diesel engines. And if I'm not mistaken, don't the modern, exhaust regurgitating Diesels have the computer programmed from the factory, so it will only allow the engine to provide limited power until the engine is warm enough to give full output? This to prevent any damage.

 

[edyvw]

That is what I have always heard.... Especially so with Diesel engines. And if I'm not mistaken, don't the modern, exhaust regurgitating Diesels have the computer programmed from the factory, so it will only allow the engine to provide limited power until the engine is warm enough to give full output? This to prevent any damage.

No, it won't limit power; it would be a safety issue.
Some will restrict coolant flow through the heater core to speed up heating as people like to hike up HVAC although there is no heat to work with delaying warming up of an engine.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

If you all will forgive me for taking a thread back to its ostensible purpose--

What do you make of the higher Magnesium in the new SP FS that is all but absent from the other variants? I'm thinking the C40 is basically a track oil that won't hold up very long on the road (lowest PDSC).

So I'd eliminate the C40 because of the low PDSC, eliminate the SP FS because it's essentially a 30wt in practice (and has no ester anymore).

Then you have to toss out Supercar for the same reason of shearing down and I think I'm left with X3 by default. At least if you are running a 40 grade expecting an actual 40 grade. You just can't push OCI with the PSDC of it like you probably could with the SP FS.


The SP FS would last longer, but why would you want to extend OCI on an oil that's shearing so fast? :SJ's rationale for switching away from the shear-prone FS to the 30 grade HPL makes sense when you consider the old formula sheared to 30 grade almost instantly anyway.

Why would you give up on lack of esters if AN's are superior in performance?

 

[edyvw]

Why would you give up on lack of esters if AN's are superior in performance?

Depends on intended application. AN's are not as good as esters at very high temperatures, but they are cheaper.

 

[billt460]

No, it won't limit power; it would be a safety issue.
Some will restrict coolant flow through the heater core to speed up heating as people like to hike up HVAC although there is no heat to work with delaying warming up of an engine.

This Cummins does it, but just for a few minutes. (@ 2:00).

 

[edyvw]

This Cummins does it, but just for a few minutes. (@ 2:00).

Maybe at certain temperatures. But, the vehicle warns driver it is reduced. My thinking was, it won't do it without telling the driver.
I started X5 35d at -42, and it does not have anything like that. But X5 diesel also has an electric heater for the interior, shutting off the heater core until the coolant reaches 130f.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Depends on intended application. AN's are not as good as esters at very high temperatures, but they are cheaper.

Is really significantly worse? I was thinking about this particular marketing piece.

https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/en/products/synthetic-base-stocks/alkylated-naphthalene

 

[edyvw]

Is really significantly worse? I was thinking about this particular marketing piece.

https://www.exxonmobilchemical.com/en/products/synthetic-base-stocks/alkylated-naphthalene

Depends on the application. I don't think in street applications you lose anything; on the contrary, 99% of street applications don't have esters, so it adds something to it.

 

[Hohn]

That is what I have always heard.... Especially so with Diesel engines. And if I'm not mistaken, don't the modern, exhaust regurgitating Diesels have the computer programmed from the factory, so it will only allow the engine to provide limited power until the engine is warm enough to give full output? This to prevent any damage.

I assume you are referring to EGR. Your sort of correct but not for the reason you think. The controls do adjust for temperature, but it's not for the purpose of power reduction per se-- it's for other purposes that have the effect of reducing power.

For example, it's really important to get catalyst temps up as soon as possible, so a cold calibration will have have the timing backed off quite a bit to raise EGT and get cats up to temp. (SCR primarily). Obviously, backing off the timing a lot will limit output relative to full timing.

EGR is on most engine now a cooled EGR. Hydrocarbon combustion produces water. If that vapor is cooled too much, it will condense. I don't need to tell you how much an engine loves water in the intake. Thus, a cold engine must limit EGR flow to well below condensation threshold.

In general, modern engines have narrower operating temperature ranges and it varies by component. A *lot* of effort is spent to try to keep different parts of the engine (and now aftertreatment) operating in a sweet spot for temperature.

The idle condition-- warm or cold-- is well outside that sweet spot.

 

[johnmyster]

EGR is on most engine now a cooled EGR. Hydrocarbon combustion produces water. If that vapor is cooled too much, it will condense. I don't need to tell you how much an engine loves water in the intake. Thus, a cold engine must limit EGR flow to well below condensation threshold.

Actually, all three pickup diesels have the ability (and have for some years) to bypass the egr cooler, and they do it for two reasons. One, get warm air into the intake to help combustion when cold. Second, reduce soot condensation within the intake tract. There's a blend valve that will operate to control the mix of cooled vs uncooled egr circulation.

The egr cooler bypass valve dates back at least to 2011 on ford, at least 2013 on cummins, L5p and perhaps LML on gm.

The use of lots of egr flow when cold has the secondary warming effect of allowing the egr cooler to scavenge as much heat into coolant as possible. My deleted truck really struggled to get hot during cold/unloaded driving.

I'm sure calibrations ABSOLUTELY reduce power in the name of in-cylinder soot/particulate control if well below operating temperature.

 

[Hohn]

Why would you give up on lack of esters if AN's are superior in performance?

I wouldn't necessarily, but where's the proof of AN content? Lack of ester is not proof of AN presence per se.

 

[Hohn]

Actually, all three pickup diesels have the ability (and have for some years) to bypass the egr cooler, and they do it for to reasons. One, get warm air into the intake to help combustion when cold. Second, reduce soot condensation within the intake tract. There's a blend valve that will operate to control the mix of cooled vs uncooled egr circulation.

The egr cooler bypass valve dates back at least to 2011 on ford, at least 2013 on cummins, L5p and perhaps LML on gm.

The use of lots of egr flow when cold has the secondary warming effect of allowing the egr cooler to scavenge as much heat into coolant as possible.

It's more of a "blend" that adjusts the proportion of cooled EGR to uncooled EGR.

I remember on the 2010 X15 development we saw evidence of acid rain in the intake manifold. That green coating on the inside isn't there for cosmetics.

 

[johnmyster]

It's more of a "blend" that adjusts the proportion of cooled EGR to uncooled EGR.

Correct, I noted it as such. My blendy actuator does its dance even at cold idle.