Pnzoil dino 10W30, 4,506 miles, Infiniti G35

[tweeker43]

here's what i'd do (actually, pretty much what i'm doing).

use whatever pennzoil dino you want (5/10w-30/40). throw in 1 quart of pennzoil longlife 15w-40 or 20w-50. maybe get a jug of lube control.

run it to 5000 miles, then pull a uoa.

i've been totally underwhelmed with m1 as well. i see no point in paying 400% more to change the oil 50% less. with pretty halfast results.

 

[ex_MGB]

If you're going to run a high vis oil in a G35, you might as well go whole hog and drop an iron block push rod truck engine in it, install a hitch and pull a trailer.

Otherwise, the only scenario I'd run high vis oil in a G35 would be if I were taking it to Europe for some hammer down bahnstorming. At a steady 140 mph you might get enough engine/drive train vibration where maybe you might want a 40 wt.

On U.S. public highways you will never stress a G35 to the point of needing a 40 wt.

[ June 28, 2005, 02:31 AM: Message edited by: ex_MGB ]

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Dan good points and you may be right. I just think sometimes we put a little too much faith in these UOA's to really know for sure what is good or not.

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Guys don't you think it's strange that no one has really proven that a name brand dino oil is any better or worse then a synthetic in the "normal" useage of a daily driver? I mean if you can get 250K miles out of a Toyota doin Toyota recommended OCI with a name brand dino oil, why would you spend more to run a synthetic? Just wondering?

 

[Pitbull]

I have this same engine in my 350Z and do 3K mile OCI's. Use Mobil drive clean 5w30 and never have to add oil between changes. This engine is listed by Wards as one of the top 10 engines ever built. I don't think its as good as my Toyota 4.7 V8 but it works great for a sports car application. JMHO

 

[chinee]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
I have this same engine in my 350Z and do 3K mile OCI's. Use Mobil drive clean 5w30 and never have to add oil between changes. This engine is listed by Wards as one of the top 10 engines ever built. I don't think its as good as my Toyota 4.7 V8 but it works great for a sports car application. JMHO

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Tell me about it... I worry over my VQ35 but pretty much don't spend much time thinking about the wife's Sequioa; M1 10W30 and 8-9K mile ODI's.. and that's that. However now that I've got a few extra qts of MC 5000 hanging around and 70K on the Seq, I'll probably run a 4-5K interval in the Seq and do a UOA just for fun. Give the 4.7 a break from all that M1.

pitbull... have you done UOAs on your VQ? I'd be interested in your results.

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

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Originally posted by chinee:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
I have this same engine in my 350Z and do 3K mile OCI's. Use Mobil drive clean 5w30 and never have to add oil between changes. This engine is listed by Wards as one of the top 10 engines ever built. I don't think its as good as my Toyota 4.7 V8 but it works great for a sports car application. JMHO

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Tell me about it... I worry over my VQ35 but pretty much don't spend much time thinking about the wife's Sequioa; M1 10W30 and 8-9K mile ODI's.. and that's that. However now that I've got a few extra qts of MC 5000 hanging around and 70K on the Seq, I'll probably run a 4-5K interval in the Seq and do a UOA just for fun. Give the 4.7 a break from all that M1.

pitbull... have you done UOAs on your VQ? I'd be interested in your results.

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I love to read all of the UOA but I'm just lazy now in my old age. I have the dealers do oil changes in both vehicles at the 3000 OCI for the Z and 3750 OCI for the Toyota and when they get to the 80K mile range I will trade them. Someone will get good used vehicles

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by fuel tanker man:


For the family sedan which will be expected to clock 150,000 miles or more back and forth to the school and the grocery store, gradual wear is important. Severe duty with the potential for extreme over-heats isn't much of a consideration. Worn out piston rings or main bearings at, say, 75,000 miles, is the concern. This calls for an oil that can deliver good wear metal numbers.

Dan

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And given the wear numbers we see here I'd bet 200,000 miles or more would be easy with either of these oils. They'll hardly cause the engine to be worn out in 75,000 miles, or even twice that. I've personally run M1 over 150,000 miles in multiple engines with OCI's of 7500-10K miles as have alot of others and the engines involved seemed to be far from worn out. In my case one of them was even a forerunner to the V6 in the G35 shwon in these reports.

So why would I want to crawl under a vehicle to change my oil 2X to 3X as often just so I could use a $2 a quart oil intead of a one that's $5 a quart? To decrease bearing wear from 1.5ppm/1k miles to 1.33ppm/1K miles, or iron wear from 2.38ppm/1k miles to 2.03ppm/1k miles?

In my case it's an easy answer. I wouldn't. I guess it depends on what you think is important. I would bet that after 200,000 miles it would be easy to tell which engine had run a quality synthetic if you took it apart. It wouldn't be the wear difference you'd see. And not to single out Pennzoil, but I also know what a UOA with Pennzoil dino looks like in one of my vehicles when it's run hard and the results were not pretty...

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by tweeker43:
here's what i'd do (actually, pretty much what i'm doing).

use whatever pennzoil dino you want (5/10w-30/40). throw in 1 quart of pennzoil longlife 15w-40 or 20w-50. maybe get a jug of lube control.

run it to 5000 miles, then pull a uoa.

i've been totally underwhelmed with m1 as well. i see no point in paying 400% more to change the oil 50% less. with pretty halfast results.

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What oil can you get for $1.25 a quart as it's normal price? Pennzoil is $2+ a quart around here...

 

[Pitbull]

[/qb][/QUOTE]
. I would bet that after 200,000 miles it would be easy to tell which engine had run a quality synthetic if you took it apart[/QB][/QUOTE]

From what I've read it isn't easy to see a difference between a quality dino oil with recommended changes and a quality synthetic. Yes the synthetic will provide better protection if you are operating in extreme cold and/or extreme heat but when you are operating where 95% of the vehicles are used it does not make a difference. Now if you are talking about extended oil change intervals then a synthetic will hold up longer. But I don't see a benefit running dirty oil in my vehicles and it is not that much easier to just do a mid-change filter replacement and top off versus just changing the oil and filter. If I can spend $20 and change my oil and filter every 3-4K miles with a good quality dino oil and OEM filter versus spend $40 and go 8-10K miles with a change of a $5 filter and $5 top off at 4K miles using synthetic oil, I just don't see the benefit unless I am operating in 20 below 0 weather where my vehicle is sitting outside all night, then the synthetic would provide a benefit. Plus even if a synthetic would make my engine last 250K miles versus lasting 200K with a quality dino oil I would not care because I don't keep vehicles that long (but it won't so it's not a factor in the decision). So why do you really use synthetic oil in your vehicle???

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
So why do you really use synthetic oil in your vehicle???

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Because the wear numbers are so similar that they can be ignored, the cost is a wash, and I end up doing 1/2 or 1/3 as many changes. I don't change the filter in the middle of a 10K run and I don't know why it would be required.

I've seen what my engines look like inside after 150,000 - 200,000+ miles with synthetic. They're still clean. Would they have been with dino? Maybe.

Would the Nissan 3.0L I had that always ran high water and oil temps have lasted as long with dino? I'm guessing not but I have no way to know for sure.

 

[Pitbull]

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:

quote:

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Originally posted by Pitbull:
So why do you really use synthetic oil in your vehicle???

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Because the wear numbers are so similar that they can be ignored, the cost is a wash, and I end up doing 1/2 or 1/3 as many changes. I don't change the filter in the middle of a 10K run and I don't know why it would be required.

I've seen what my engines look like inside after 150,000 - 200,000+ miles with synthetic. They're still clean. Would they have been with dino? Maybe.

Would the Nissan 3.0L I had that always ran high water and oil temps have lasted as long with dino? I'm guessing not but I have no way to know for sure.

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I understand what your saying but what about warranty concerns? My Toyota requires 5K mile OCI to meet warranty requirements. Please don't use the answer that the manufacture has to prove that by me doing 10K mile changes with synthetic caused the failure. I don't want to have to hire a lawyer to try and prove that my 10K mile OCI with synthetic was just as good as the dealers required 5K mile OCI. This is a problem for most owners that drive vehicles still under warranty.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:
...Receipts from Walmart for "some oil" aren't going to *prove* you actually changed it nor is any personal log book you might keep...

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Bovine Stuff - where did you get your law degree? (You got a refund coming.) Just such evidence has been accepted in settling binding arbitration cases in favor of car owners for years - which by the way neither requires nor permits the presence of lawyers. The decision is binding only on the manufacturer. The car owner is still free to pursue legal action if the decision goes against him. Binding arbitration is a service of the BBB and is free to the consumer.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:
...Because ... I end up doing 1/2 or 1/3 as many changes.

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Which also results in 2-3 times the concentration of sub-20u particulates to build up between OCIs. There's more to the particulate story than wear metals, alone. Even if this crud doesn't agglutinate into sludge, it's still abrasive.

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Just how abrasive is it and how much wear does it cause? If it were actually causing increased wear as the concetration increased wouldn't we see an ever increasing wear rate ( ppm/mileage ) as the OCI progressed? I don't think we've seen that have we?

[ July 06, 2005, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

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Originally posted by jsharp:
...Receipts from Walmart for "some oil" aren't going to *prove* you actually changed it nor is any personal log book you might keep...

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Bovine Stuff - where did you get your law degree? (You got a refund coming.) Just such evidence has been accepted in settling binding arbitration cases in favor of car owners for years - which by the way neither requires nor permits the presence of lawyers. The decision is binding only on the manufacturer. The car owner is still free to pursue legal action if the decision goes against him. Binding arbitration is a service of the BBB and is free to the consumer.

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And where did you get your law degree? The BBB isn't any government agency. Dealers are free to ignore anything the BBB says and they can't be forced into any arbitration agreement by them.

The proof is the burden of the dealer with denied warranty claims, not the owner. If it weren't the dealers would be free to deny virtually every claim than came in the door by saying the product had been misused or improperly maintained and the onwer would have to prove the negative to get things resolved at the dealers expense...

[ July 06, 2005, 01:21 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[Ray H]

No they're not. In fact the dealer's not even involved in the arbitration process. When a consumer begins alternative dispute resolution through the BBB, the parties are the consumer and the manufacturer. A decision in favor of the consumer requires the manufacurer to arrange necessary repairs/adjustments through the dealer network, for which the dealer is paid as normal warranty work by the manufacturer. Apparently you're definition-challenged in the case of the word, "binding". My information comes from two (Honda and Hyundai) warranty supplemental booklets. What are you basing your claims on other than personal, unsupported, wild-eyed speculation?

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
No they're not. Apparently you're definition-challenged in the case of the word, "binding". My information comes from two (Honda and Hyundai) warranty supplemental booklets. What are you basing your claims on other than personal wild-eyed speculation?

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Well, having Toyota, Ford, and Nissan warranty info on my vehicles that state no such thing might be the reason for my "wide eyed speculation"

But flame away, it's not making your argument any more convincing...

 

[Ray H]

Look again or get someone who knows how to read to do it for you. This is boilerplate text required in all owner paperwork supplied by manufacturers who market vehicles in the U.S.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:
Look again or get someone who knows how to read to do it for you. This is boilerplate text required in all owner paperwork supplied by manufacturers who market vehicles in the U.S.

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Link us to the statement that requires *by law* that binding arbitration by the BBB is required to sell cars in the US. Or binding arbitration by anyone else. Or just keep making things up. Your choice.

:edit: Just checked my Ford manual again. Looks like I can read just fine...

[ July 06, 2005, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[Ray H]

I don't have a link - nor did I ever claim I did. I stated perfectly plainly that the information is contained in supplemental warranty information booklets that I have in my possesion. So far all you've offered is word of mouth - which by itself makes my points no less convincing. You seem peculiarly interested in making claims, but offering nothing whatsoever to support them. I imagine our little interchange has sent a few BITOGERs scrambling for their own paperwork, and I'm sure they'll be able to confirm what I've said. (I'm equally sure you've already done the same but you won't admit it.) You can have the last word - it seems to be the only thing you're good at.

 

[Ray H]

Pages 10-12 in the "HYUNDAI 2003 Owner's Handbook & Warranty Information" supplement:

"ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION
Hyundai Motor America's internal consumer assitance proecess will make every effort to resolve every customer concern in a satisfactory manner. We realize, however, that mutual agreement on some issues may not be possible. To ensure that you have had an opportunity to have your concern fully reviewed, Hyundai Motor America provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution (arbitration) program. Hyundai offers the program through:

BBB AUTO LINE
Alternative Dispute Resolution Division
Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc.
4200 Wilson Boulevard, Suite 800
Arlington, Virginaia 22203
1-800-955-5100

This service is profided at no cost to you and is part of Hyundai's effort to provide you with an impartial third-party organization to equitably resolve your concerns.

AUTO LINE will perform arbitration services on diputes involving Hyundai vehicles with an alleged nonconformity, defect, or deficient warranty performance, as may be required by state or federal law.

NOTE: If your state law requires written notification to the manufacturer please write:

HYUNDAI MOTOR AMERICA
CONSUMER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM
10550 TALBERT AVENUE
FOUNTAIN VALLEY, CA 92708

To begin the Alternative Dispute Resolution (arbitration) process, simply call the Council of Better Business Bureaus at 1-800-955-5100 and you will be sent a Customer Claim Form, along with a handbook describing how BBB AUTO LINE works.

A decision should be rendered within 40 days of AUTO LINE's receipt of your properly completed Customer Claim form. BBB will mail you a copy of the arbitrator's decision and if you accept the decision, all parties must comply with the decision within the time limits (performance date) set by the arbitrator. Approximately two weeks after the "performance date", BBB shall contact the consumer to verify that the arbitrators' decision has been completed.

AUTO LINE's decisions do not include attorney's fees, punitive damages, multiple damages or consequential damages other than incidental damages which you may be entitled to under law.

If you object to the decision of the arbitrator you may pursue other legal remedies under state or federal law; the company will not be obligated to perform any part of of the decision; depending on federal or state law, the decision may or may not be introduced as evidence by the consumer or the company in any civil court action relating to any matter that has been resolved in your arbitration hearing, and the BBB involvement in the case will end as well."

Alternaive Dispute Resolution is brokered by the BBB, but is funded by contributions from all auto and light truck manufactirers marketing in the U.S. Argue with them, jsharp.