OW-16 vs 0W-20 viscosity specs - does it really matter.

I don't know what kind of places you are doing business with, but that would immediately lose me as a customer. You should also complain to the vehicle manufacturer.
It's not a stipulation by the vehicle manufacturer, so what would complaining do?

Plenty of vehicles don't spec anything more than the basic API approval, something which is readily available in bulk in the common grades.

Remember, many dealerships are trying to compete with the likes of Jiffy Lube, which is why they offer cheap oil change specials that use bulk fluids.
Castrol Edge Professional etc. along with exact weight are mentioned on ALL of my receipts, free oil changes or not from ALL of my VW dealers and my Volvo dealer. The relationship of the dealer with the manufacturer gets them the factory parts and fluids that go with your vehicle.
Keep in mind, they could be buying the Castrol product in bulk. Just because a dealership is buying/using a bulk product doesn't mean it's No Name brand, just means it is being delivered to their bulk fill tank; it's not a bottled product.

If I were to get the oil on my SRT changed at the dealership, it would get Pennzoil Ultra SRT 0W-40, because that's what it calls for. My RAM would get bulk (probably Petro-Canada) 5W-20 because it doesn't call for anything special.
There is none of this "spill and fill" bulk crap. Do they give you autozone control arm bushings too? I mean come on.
The competition for "spill and fill" are places like Jiffy Lube and Walmart with their cheap oil change specials, which I mentioned earlier.
 
I don't know what kind of places you are doing business with, but that would immediately lose me as a customer. You should also complain to the vehicle manufacturer.
Surely you jest. The OEM that maintains the universally hated master distributor Southeast Toyota is going to care what oil the dealer uses? The spec is API SN+ resource conserving. Unless there is some special clause in Toyota franchise contracts they can't force them to use any brand of oil.

The honest answer is I don't know what oil they use, but its a very high volume dealer so it would shock me if its GTMO. The other honest answer is the service advisors have already lied to me enough that I wouldn't believe them anyway. The third honest answer is they will loose me as a service customer as soon as the warranty is up and the free stuff stops - and they would have any which way.
 
Surely you jest. The OEM that maintains the universally hated master distributor Southeast Toyota is going to care what oil the dealer uses? The spec is API SN+ resource conserving. Unless there is some special clause in Toyota franchise contracts they can't force them to use any brand of oil.

The honest answer is I don't know what oil they use, but its a very high volume dealer so it would shock me if its GTMO. The other honest answer is the service advisors have already lied to me enough that I wouldn't believe them anyway. The third honest answer is they will loose me as a service customer as soon as the warranty is up and the free stuff stops - and they would have any which way.
Here's a Nissan dealership for example:
Includes Genuine Nissan Oil Filter and up to 7 quarts of motor oil (per vehicle specification). Complimentary multi-point inspection. No appointment necessary.
Note the emphasis.

Here's the disclaimer:
*Excludes diesel models. Using Genuine Nissan Oil Filter and multi-grade oil up to vehicle specification. Certain restrictions apply. See dealer for details. Price and offer availability may vary by model. Taxes and fees additional. No cash value. Must present offer to redeem. May not be combined with other offers. Nissan vehicles only. Void where prohibited.

So if the car calls for API SN, that's what it gets. But you DO get a genuine Nissan filter!
 
So why is the same.engine speced or allowed to use heavier oils outside of the US?


This has been "hashed over" many times as well. It's often a matter of cost, supply chain, and climate.

In Mexico anything synthetic is prohibitively expensive and "conventional" (albeit probably a blend if SM or newer) is the norm and a 0W-20 in a (say) Mazda would be a large increase in the cost of ownership in countries like Mexico, if the owner can even find a jug of 0W-20. Also some countries have longer drain intervals because the overall cost of a 5L (5qt more or less) jug is several times more expensive in places like Europe and probably Downunder than it is here...
motor-oil-products-store-germany-july-automobile-supermarket-aisle-real-hypermarket-engine-used-lubrication-88497361.jpg
 
Yeah, that's equivalent to $106 a jug for the 0W-30 LM, not sure if that includes VAT or not. People here piss themselves if they can't buy a jug of syn on clearance for $10... :)

The above pic if from Germany but no idea when it was taken. But the taxes on the Mobil 1 0W-40 would be over $16 alone...
 
Surely you jest. The OEM that maintains the universally hated master distributor Southeast Toyota is going to care what oil the dealer uses? The spec is API SN+ resource conserving. Unless there is some special clause in Toyota franchise contracts they can't force them to use any brand of oil.

The honest answer is I don't know what oil they use, but its a very high volume dealer so it would shock me if its GTMO. The other honest answer is the service advisors have already lied to me enough that I wouldn't believe them anyway. The third honest answer is they will loose me as a service customer as soon as the warranty is up and the free stuff stops - and they would have any which way.

If you go to a Toyota dealer and you are shocked that you get TGMO I feel sorry for you. I am getting TGMO. 100%, every time, every day. I guess you have dealers that operate like the wild west. Who knows what is going in your car? They're competing with Jiffy Lube! Whatever. I guess you guys live in Afghanistan or something.
 
If you go to a Toyota dealer and you are shocked that you get TGMO I feel sorry for you. I am getting TGMO. 100%, every time, every day. I guess you have dealers that operate like the wild west. Who knows what is going in your car? They're competing with Jiffy Lube! Whatever. I guess you guys live in Afghanistan or something.
Okay.
 
If you go to a Toyota dealer and you are shocked that you get TGMO I feel sorry for you. I am getting TGMO. 100%, every time, every day. I guess you have dealers that operate like the wild west. Who knows what is going in your car? They're competing with Jiffy Lube! Whatever. I guess you guys live in Afghanistan or something.
Curious what you feel the benefits of getting TGMO over say another name brand (Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil...etc) are? I mean beyond the fact that it says "Toyota" on the sticker.
 
If you go to a Toyota dealer and you are shocked that you get TGMO I feel sorry for you. I am getting TGMO. 100%, every time, every day. I guess you have dealers that operate like the wild west. Who knows what is going in your car? They're competing with Jiffy Lube! Whatever. I guess you guys live in Afghanistan or something.
In high school and for during a couple summers in College i worked in a small town GM dealer. We had bottled GM oil in parts for those that cared to buy it, but the "Genuine GM Service" was bulk oil from a oil wholesaler. We weren't silicon valley, but we weren't Afghanistan either.
 
If you go to a Toyota dealer and you are shocked that you get TGMO I feel sorry for you. I am getting TGMO. 100%, every time, every day. I guess you have dealers that operate like the wild west. Who knows what is going in your car? They're competing with Jiffy Lube! Whatever. I guess you guys live in Afghanistan or something.
At my old Toyota stealership unless your requested TGMO you got what was the stealership standard Chevron Dinosaur!
 
Curious what you feel the benefits of getting TGMO over say another name brand (Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil...etc) are? I mean beyond the fact that it says "Toyota" on the sticker.
I don't "feel" anything. You are missing my point entirely. I expect a certain standard of service and I expect to know what I am getting and get what I pay for. Luckily for me, I have never seen a dealer just give me "whatever". All were genuine oil types that the manufacturer used, supported and recommended knowingly (yes usually made by Castrol or Mobil, but known and understood ahead of time, not chosen at random) As everyone knows, FCA products are Pennzoil/Shell, BMW at one point was as well, but then went back to Castrol along with Volkswagen/Audi. Toyota genuine is made by Mobil. Etc. etc. etc. As a matter of fact, you CANNOT just put "whatever bulk oil" into a lot of these new Toyotas because there is NO OTHER OIL like it. TGMO 0W16 for example has over 10x the moly of regular Mobil1 0W16. You think the Toyota dealer is just gonna say screw it and throw whatever they got laying around in that car? NO. Additionally for those of you trying to make the case that they do this for "profit"? and compete with Jiffy Lube? Are you kidding me? I got news for you, regardless of what kind of oil you use, the profit is roughly the same. ZERO. Dealership business models are vastly different than quick lube places or independent mechanics. They don't skimp on oil to screw you out of a few bucks. Thats what their high labor rates and (sometimes) ridiculous recommendations are for. If you have a dealer using mystery oil, RUN. That is all I am going to say. Leave a 1 star review on every platform and never return.
 
NO OTHER OIL like it. TGMO 0W16
My 2019 Toyota manual says different - " or equivalent". They even say I can use an even higher viscosity "
viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme

load conditions."

For ATF however they are very specific. So if the Engine Oil needed to be very specific then I presume they would have no problem to say so.



1677358805803.png

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1677358879536.png
 
Additionally for those of you trying to make the case that they do this for "profit"? and compete with Jiffy Lube? Are you kidding me? I got news for you, regardless of what kind of oil you use, the profit is roughly the same. ZERO. Dealership business models are vastly different than quick lube places or independent mechanics.
My mom takes her Camry to the Toyota dealer and they charge her $136 for an oil and filter change (a rip-off IMO). They charge $7.99/qt (0W-20) and $9.99 for the filter. The rest is labor. They are making money on oil changes ... do the math.
 
It really depends on the dealer, some will charge a market rate similar to a quick lube place, some will charge parts and labor like any other service, and some will offer oil changes as a loss leader in order to get you in, which both has the effect of being an act of goodwill that customers view your business more favorable and also gives you the oppurtunity to upsell other services and repairs.
 
I don't "feel" anything. You are missing my point entirely. I expect a certain standard of service and I expect to know what I am getting and get what I pay for. Luckily for me, I have never seen a dealer just give me "whatever". All were genuine oil types that the manufacturer used, supported and recommended knowingly (yes usually made by Castrol or Mobil, but known and understood ahead of time, not chosen at random) As everyone knows, FCA products are Pennzoil/Shell, BMW at one point was as well, but then went back to Castrol along with Volkswagen/Audi. Toyota genuine is made by Mobil. Etc. etc. etc. As a matter of fact, you CANNOT just put "whatever bulk oil" into a lot of these new Toyotas because there is NO OTHER OIL like it. TGMO 0W16 for example has over 10x the moly of regular Mobil1 0W16. You think the Toyota dealer is just gonna say screw it and throw whatever they got laying around in that car? NO. Additionally for those of you trying to make the case that they do this for "profit"? and compete with Jiffy Lube? Are you kidding me? I got news for you, regardless of what kind of oil you use, the profit is roughly the same. ZERO. Dealership business models are vastly different than quick lube places or independent mechanics. They don't skimp on oil to screw you out of a few bucks. Thats what their high labor rates and (sometimes) ridiculous recommendations are for. If you have a dealer using mystery oil, RUN. That is all I am going to say. Leave a 1 star review on every platform and never return.
Okay yeah.
 
I don't "feel" anything.
I mean, you clearly do, you sound like you need to take a Xanax at just the thought of bulk oil that you don't know the brand of being used, regardless of it meeting the spec.
You are missing my point entirely. I expect a certain standard of service and I expect to know what I am getting and get what I pay for.
So, if you are paying for an oil change that doesn't list a brand, it's just a $39.99 oil change special that says it uses an oil that meets the required specification, how you are not being adequately served? Sure, if the sign says you get Mobil 1/Castrol/Mouse Milk, then you expect to get that, but many of the "coupon", "conventional" or "bargain" services don't list a specific product.
Luckily for me, I have never seen a dealer just give me "whatever". All were genuine oil types that the manufacturer used, supported and recommended knowingly (yes usually made by Castrol or Mobil, but known and understood ahead of time, not chosen at random) As everyone knows, FCA products are Pennzoil/Shell, BMW at one point was as well, but then went back to Castrol along with Volkswagen/Audi.
FCA used to be Mobil.

What if it's a type that the manufacturer doesn't use? My Ford example from earlier, Ford doesn't have a relationship with Mobil, at all, but this dealer will sell you Mobil products, including Mobil 1. All meet the required performance requirements from Ford (the WSS-xxx) but so do most bulk oils.
Toyota genuine is made by Mobil. Etc. etc. etc. As a matter of fact, you CANNOT just put "whatever bulk oil" into a lot of these new Toyotas because there is NO OTHER OIL like it. TGMO 0W16 for example has over 10x the moly of regular Mobil1 0W16.
Where's the spec in the manual that demands higher levels of moly? There isn't one. Toyota simply calls for API SP in 0W-16, which means you can use Mobil, Shell, Petro-Canada...etc. So yeah, you can in fact use whatever bulk oil in that grade as long as it's API SP.
You think the Toyota dealer is just gonna say screw it and throw whatever they got laying around in that car? NO.
They'll put in whatever meets the spec. Since Toyota doesn't have any specific approvals beyond the API ones, that's not setting the bar very high. Sure, some dealership will advertise that they use only Toyota Genuine Oil, but there are others that don't.
Additionally for those of you trying to make the case that they do this for "profit"? and compete with Jiffy Lube? Are you kidding me? I got news for you, regardless of what kind of oil you use, the profit is roughly the same. ZERO. Dealership business models are vastly different than quick lube places or independent mechanics. They don't skimp on oil to screw you out of a few bucks. Thats what their high labor rates and (sometimes) ridiculous recommendations are for.
You missed the point of this by a country mile. The reason to compete with Jiffy, Walmart...etc is to get you in the door. While you are in for your $39.99 conventional oil change they give your vehicle a "once over" and then recommend new wiper blades, brakes or a brake service, tires, alignment...etc. That's the angle.
If you have a dealer using mystery oil, RUN. That is all I am going to say. Leave a 1 star review on every platform and never return.
Who said it's mystery oil? It's bulk oil, if you ask them who makes it I'm sure they'll tell you, nobody is keeping it a secret. I know Petro-Canada produces it for some Canadian dealers, but Safety-Kleen also sells it, P66 (they make Kendall, Supertech...etc). I'm sure Mobil also makes a bulk product along with Shell and Castrol.

Here's the Pennzoil product. You'll note it meets Chrysler, Ford and GM specs and is API SP:
Screen Shot 2023-02-25 at 5.26.22 PM.png


Here's Pennzoil "Full Synthetic" that isn't a consumer-geared product in 0W-20:
Screen Shot 2023-02-25 at 5.31.41 PM.png


I could dig up many more. These are the type of product used in the bulk tanks.
 
As a matter of fact, you CANNOT just put "whatever bulk oil" into a lot of these new Toyotas because there is NO OTHER OIL like it. TGMO 0W16 for example has over 10x the moly of regular Mobil1 0W16
This statement is false. Please review your owner manual again. Secondly, toyota dealer is not required to use TGMO, the minimum requirement for them to use oil that meets specification of your car. If your dealer does use it, its their choice.
 
This statement is false. Please review your owner manual again. Secondly, toyota dealer is not required to use TGMO, the minimum requirement for them to use oil that meets specification of your car. If your dealer does use it, its their choice.
I wondered if I didn't get a 0W20 instead of 0W16 in our hybrid when we had dealer service the Highlander??
 
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