HPL 0W-20 vs 5W-20 vs 10W-20

[Ed_Flecko]

I was looking at HPL oils, and I see they make a "Euro" 10W-20 (https://www.hplubricants.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/No-VII-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf).

From what I have found, that's an unusual oil. I'll contact them this week to ask more about it, but I am curious about the "theoretical" differences between these three grades of oils (0W-20 -vs 5W-20 -vs 10W-20)? Obviously, the flow of these oils, when cold, would be a tiny bit different.

Why would any manufacturer create a 10W-20 oil? What are they trying to achieve and who is their target audience?

I live in California and my Winter low temperatures rarely get below 35 degrees at night and Summer daytime highs rarely exceed 110 degrees. I have a 2019 Toyota Tacoma with the 3.5L V6 motor. My manual calls for 0W-20.

Thank you,
Ed

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Your Manual calls for the 0w20 highest mileage viscosity (CAFE).
Your engine and climate would handle 10w20 wonderfully and would lose under one mile per gallon at the gas pump (0.50) probably.

If you can afford the HPL, jump on it and you'll likely notice the engine is quieter and runs smoother.
Personally, I have never met a 0w20 or 0w30 that my engines have liked yet.... from Supertech to Boutiques. They run louder with it

 

[ka9mnx]

Call or email (preferred) HPL and get the straight answer.

 

[JavierH19]

Toyotas that call for 0w-20 can use up to 20w-50 including the 2gr-fks. Use anything you want. If you're buying hpl you might as well get the no vii 5w-30.

 

[BrendanC]

regular old PCEO 5w-30 is what i would run in a yota that would probably run 400k on the 0w-20.

 

[JAG]

HPL’s no-VII 5W-20 and 10W-20 Euro oils are an unusual case, where the 5W-20 has a much higher ratio for HTHS/KV100 than 10W-20. I don’t have an explanation for it or know what they are trying to achieve with the 10W-20 or who the target audience is. Between those two I would certainly choose 5W-20 because it overall has a better viscometrics. With oils containing VIIs, if base oil type and VII type stays the same, the 10W-20 would likely have a higher HTHS/KV100 ratio than 5W-20 due to 10W-20 using less VII.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

HPL’s no-VII 5W-20 and 10W-20 Euro oils are an unusual case, where the 5W-20 has a much higher ratio for HTHS/KV100 than 10W-20. I don’t have an explanation for it or know what they are trying to achieve with the 10W-20 or who the target audience is. Between those two I would certainly choose 5W-20 because it overall has a better viscometrics. With oils containing VIIs, if base oil type and VII type stays the same, the 10W-20 would likely have a higher HTHS/KV100 ratio than 5W-20 due to 10W-20 using less VII.

Thank you.

Forgive my ignorance. Can you explain the significance of "higher HTHS/KV100" and what it really means "in laymen terms"?



Ed

 

[JavierH19]

Thank you.

Forgive my ignorance. Can you explain the significance of "higher HTHS/KV100" and what it really means "in laymen terms"?



Ed

Thick good, thin bad, high vii bad, see chart, use 20 50, yota moedur now lasts ∞ miles....

 

[JAG]

Can you explain the significance of "higher HTHS/KV100" and what it really means "in laymen terms"?

In a warmed up engine, HTHS viscosity is more relevant than kinematic viscosity at 100 C. The common VIIs cause the dynamic viscosity to decrease temporarily as the shear rate increases, and the HTHS test accounts for that. So, in oils with common VIIs, the HTHS/KV100 ratio provides an indication of how much temporary viscosity loss occurs from high shear rates. It’s most accurate to do factor in some other things to better quantity it but that’s more detail than you seem to want.

In two oils without VIIs, the ratio is due to the base oil(s) types and proportions of them, as well as the additive package. No VIIs are present but the dispersants tend to cause temporary viscosity loss at high shear rates. Higher base oil viscosity index increases the HTHS/KV100 ratio because HTHS viscosity is at 150 C while KV100 is at 100 C. Despite knowing these things, I cannot definitely explain the reasons for HPL’s no-VII 5W-20 and 10W-20 Euro oils’ viscometrics. They have almost identical VI.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

In a warmed up engine, HTHS viscosity is more relevant than kinematic viscosity at 100 C. The common VIIs cause the dynamic viscosity to decrease temporarily as the shear rate increases, and the HTHS test accounts for that. So, in oils with common VIIs, the HTHS/KV100 ratio provides an indication of how much temporary viscosity loss occurs from high shear rates. It’s most accurate to do factor in some other things to better quantity it but that’s more detail than you seem to want.

In two oils without VIIs, the ratio is due to the base oil(s) types and proportions of them, as well as the additive package. No VIIs are present but the dispersants tend to cause temporary viscosity loss at high shear rates. Higher base oil viscosity index increases the HTHS/KV100 ratio because HTHS viscosity is at 150 C while KV100 is at 100 C. Despite knowing these things, I cannot definitely explain the reasons for HPL’s no-VII 5W-20 and 10W-20 Euro oils’ viscometrics. They have almost identical VI.

Thank you!



Ed

 

[userfriendly]

HPL’s no-VII 5W-20 and 10W-20 Euro oils are an unusual case, where the 5W-20 has a much higher ratio for HTHS/KV100 than 10W-20. I don’t have an explanation for it or know what they are trying to achieve with the 10W-20 or who the target audience is. Between those two I would certainly choose 5W-20 because it overall has a better viscometrics. With oils containing VIIs, if base oil type and VII type stays the same, the 10W-20 would likely have a higher HTHS/KV100 ratio than 5W-20 due to 10W-20 using less VII.

Right, and Delo 400 SAE 20 is one of the last mono grade 20s offered by a major.
I would guess it’s only available by the US five gallon pail for around $80 USD.
It might be available by the 208L drum.
Did Chevron launch a Delo 5W20?

 

[The Critic]

HPL’s no-VII 5W-20 and 10W-20 Euro oils are an unusual case, where the 5W-20 has a much higher ratio for HTHS/KV100 than 10W-20. I don’t have an explanation for it or know what they are trying to achieve with the 10W-20 or who the target audience is. Between those two I would certainly choose 5W-20 because it overall has a better viscometrics. With oils containing VIIs, if base oil type and VII type stays the same, the 10W-20 would likely have a higher HTHS/KV100 ratio than 5W-20 due to 10W-20 using less VII.

That's a good question for @RDY4WAR

 

[RDY4WAR]

HPL’s no-VII 5W-20 and 10W-20 Euro oils are an unusual case, where the 5W-20 has a much higher ratio for HTHS/KV100 than 10W-20. I don’t have an explanation for it or know what they are trying to achieve with the 10W-20 or who the target audience is. Between those two I would certainly choose 5W-20 because it overall has a better viscometrics. With oils containing VIIs, if base oil type and VII type stays the same, the 10W-20 would likely have a higher HTHS/KV100 ratio than 5W-20 due to 10W-20 using less VII.

That's a good question for @RDY4WAR

The No VII 10W-20 has slightly better additive response and lower volatility (3.8%) which you trade-off for the lower startup temp of the 5W-20. The 5W-20 is still less volatile that any API rated oil, and the 10W-20 has pour points that rival many 5W-xx API oils. I use the PCMO 10W-20 in my wife's Mustang and our Grand Caravan, neither of which had any trouble cranking up in 8°F weather last week.

 

[JAG]

The No VII 10W-20 has slightly better additive response…

Thanks. Do you know or think that the Euro No VII 10W-20 uses a higher percentage of alkylated naphthalene than the Euro No VII 5W-20? That was one of my guesses to explain the properties.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Thanks. Do you know or think that the Euro No VII 10W-20 uses a higher percentage of alkylated naphthalene than the Euro No VII 5W-20? That was one of my guesses to explain the properties.

The 10W-20 and 5W-20 have the same AN concentration.

 

[kschachn]

The No VII 10W-20 has slightly better additive response and lower volatility (3.8%) which you trade-off for the lower startup temp of the 5W-20. The 5W-20 is still less volatile that any API rated oil, and the 10W-20 has pour points that rival many 5W-xx API oils. I use the PCMO 10W-20 in my wife's Mustang and our Grand Caravan, neither of which had any trouble cranking up in 8°F weather last week.

Yes, any oil with a 10W winter rating should not have undue difficulty cranking at 8°F. If you do then it's an issue with the battery or starting system on the car.

Cranking performance takes precedent over pumping in establishing the winter rating.