OW-16 vs 0W-20 viscosity specs - does it really matter.

[OVERKILL]

It doesn't say the logic of the control system. I could see the ECU putting the engine into "reduced power mode" when the oil pressure is too low, but why would it do that if the pressure was higher than expected? If the system was so sensitive to oil viscosity, why would all Toyota OMs say you can use a thicker oil for more severe engine use? If the pump system was so sensitive, there should be a big warning statement in the OM to only use a certain oil. They only "recommend" (like ever other vehicle OM), they do not ever say "required" in terms of oil viscosity.

"The wrong oil can set off codes because the ECM knows what the oil pressure should be for a given engine speed and coolant temperature. If the numbers do not match, it will set a code and put the engine into a reduced power mode."

That's not a Toyota oil pump though, that pump is like what's found in some GM and FCA (now Stellantis) vehicles.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That's not a Toyota oil pump though, that pump is like what's found in some GM and FCA (now Stellantis) vehicles.

I was just commenting on the info in that referenced link, regardless of what vehicle that subject pump was used in. As has been mentioned before, there are all kinds of variable displacement PD oil pump designs and control schemes emerging - some are more simple than others. Personally, I'd be happy with the old fashionsd non-variable style with a spring loaded mechanical pressure relief valve.

 

[OVERKILL]

I was just commenting on the info in that referenced link, regardless of what vehicle that subject pump was used in. As has been mentioned before, there are all kinds of variable displacement PD oil pump designs and control schemes emerging - some are more simple than others. Personally, I'd be happy with the old fashionsd non-variable style with a spring loaded mechanical pressure relief valve.

Understood, but in the theme of this thread, which is about a Toyota, I think it's important that folks note that fact.

 

[Wizz]

If it is the Dynamic Force engine then stick with 0W-16. So many people simply rehash something they 'read' with no real world engine building (not 'assembly', big difference) experience. The guys in engine rooms make fun of those same people's lack of real world knowledge. The motor will not last any longer on 20W. I would change the first run of oil early, usually at 1k miles or so, there are always break-in metals present and often at high concentrations. And different country regions do run slightly difference programing in some instances, especially on diesels.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

If it is the Dynamic Force engine then stick with 0W-16. So many people simply rehash something they 'read' with no real world engine building (not 'assembly', big difference) experience. The guys in engine rooms make fun of those same people's lack of real world knowledge. The motor will not last any longer on 20W. I would change the first run of oil early, usually at 1k miles or so, there are always break-in metals present and often at high concentrations. And different country regions do run slightly difference programing in some instances, especially on diesels.

Please, share your source of knowledge that shows the engine will not last any longer on a 20wt oil. Decades of publicly available testing begs to differ…

 

[kschachn]

If it is the Dynamic Force engine then stick with 0W-16. So many people simply rehash something they 'read' with no real world engine building (not 'assembly', big difference) experience. The guys in engine rooms make fun of those same people's lack of real world knowledge. The motor will not last any longer on 20W. I would change the first run of oil early, usually at 1k miles or so, there are always break-in metals present and often at high concentrations. And different country regions do run slightly difference programing in some instances, especially on diesels.

This is abject nonsense. You are the one who repeatedly rehash what they read on the Internet, or worse.

Although I do see you’ve changed some of it that was particularly silly.

 

[SC Maintenance]

This is abject nonsense. You are the one who repeatedly rehash what they read on the Internet, or worse.

Although I do see you’ve changed some of it that was particularly silly.

I read on the internet from a guy who was an engine builder that said engine builders laugh at guys on the internet that use oil heavier than factory spec.

The irony?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I read on the internet from a guy who was an engine builder that said engine builders laugh at guys on the internet that use oil heavier than factory spec.

Guess those engine builders do a lot of "controlled high tech testing" ... in their garages, lol. Test program conclusion: "It didn't "blow-up" so I guess there can't be anything bad going on or any additional wear happening". 😋

 

[OVERKILL]

This is abject nonsense. You are the one who repeatedly rehash what they read on the Internet, or worse.

Although I do see you’ve changed some of it that was particularly silly.

I particularly like the implied appeal to authority fallacy.

What's that about rocks and glass houses?

I'd think that if I didn't know the difference between a clearance and a tolerance and while mindlessly bloviating, broached that subject, making this apparent, and somebody picked up on this and called it out, that I might tone down the bravado and rhetoric a bit for fear or being called on it further. It appears that doubling down is the route taken however and we are seeing the expected fallout of this approach.

 

[billt460]

I read on the internet from a guy who was an engine builder that said engine builders laugh at guys on the internet that use oil heavier than factory spec.

What is he now?

 

[Triple3 in Mo.]

I have 5 qts of HPL 0w16 ready for my next oil change on our 2020
Toyota Rav 4. now at 27,439 miles. I plan on running it 7500 miles. (No more), then sending
a sample to Black Stone for analysis.
Already have the bottle and shipping package from Black Stone.

 

[billt460]

I have 5 qts of HPL 0w16 ready for my next oil change on our 2020
Toyota Rav 4. now at 27,439 miles. I plan on running it 7500 miles. (No more), then sending
a sample to Black Stone for analysis.
Already have the bottle and shipping package from Black Stone.

If it's the same brand, I would bet the 0W-16 will analyze much the same as 0W-20 under the same conditions. Except it's not going to have the added viscosity or film strength.

 

[kschachn]

I have 5 qts of HPL 0w16 ready for my next oil change on our 2020
Toyota Rav 4. now at 27,439 miles. I plan on running it 7500 miles. (No more), then sending
a sample to Black Stone for analysis.
Already have the bottle and shipping package from Black Stone.

What are you looking for in that spectrographic analysis?

 

[KICK]

What instigated this thread is I am debating dumping the new 0W-16 out of my Toyota and replacing it with 0W-20. The 0W-16 is new. I took the car to the dealer - feel obligated as its still in warranty - and they changed the oil for free - work order and window sticker say 0w-16 which is what the manual calls for.

In reviewing the J300 specs, there is quite a bit of overlap in the spec, and HTHS isn't that far apart?

I also have no idea what they put in - likely the cheapest crap around. However in looking at the M1 Advanced Fuel Economy for the 16 vs 20 weight, there like 7.2 Vs 8.2 [email protected]?

So do I dump it and put in 0w-20?

Side question, if I do - do I change the filter - its a new OEM filter - so I am thinking not on that part.


View attachment 137054

when a difference makes no difference, is there a difference?

 

[ZeeOSix]

If it's the same brand, I would bet the 0W-16 will analyze much the same as 0W-20 under the same conditions. Except it's not going to have the added viscosity or film strength.

The 0W-16 may have better film strength to make up for less viscosity. Film thickness (MOFT from viscosity) is different than film strength (from the AF/AW package). Industry terminology to distinguish the difference. Viscosity is the 1st line of wear defense, followed by the film strength. Of course the engine components that run more in the boundry lubrication realm rely more on that film strength factor.

 

[billt460]

The 0W-16 may have better film strength to make up for less viscosity.......

Why wouldn't they apply the same film strength to their 0W-20?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Why wouldn't they apply the same film strength to their 0W-20?

Been said and shown in lubrication articles that as oils become thinner they tend to have a better AF/AW package to make up for the lack of viscosity. They could have the same film strength package, or the thinner may have a better film strength. Depends on what the oil blender does of course.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Deleted - double post.

 

[Hermann]

Been said and shown in lubrication articles that as oils become thinner they tend to have a better AF/AW package to make up for the lack of viscosity.

IIRC there was a discussion of the merits and pitfalls of 0W-16. One of the merits was that Mobil 1 and Valvoline products were pure oils with no VII's. Sound like good oil to me. In the early days of 0w-16 it was over 70% PAO. Who knows now. Also IIRC low VII oils will shear less.

 

[chris719]

Other parts of the world may have a different ECU programming to allow the heavier weights.

Edit - addressed sufficiently earlier in thread.