PS..If you check your GL1800 handbook (I may be worng), in order to maintain your warranty, you must destroy three Harley motors.
I'm feeling froggy today...
I'm feeling froggy today...
New H-D Twin Cam 96. What oil?
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The 4.2L V8's in my W126 Mercedes & 8.5 quarts oil capacity equates to 29.@#$%^&*+ cubic inches per quart... And that's with a 16 quart cooling system and twin electric fans!
No wonder they don't overheat!
Cheers!
p.s. For my money using a quality 20W-50 dino for short OCI's or Amsoil 20W-50 for longer intervals is the way to go.
No wonder they don't overheat!
Cheers!
p.s. For my money using a quality 20W-50 dino for short OCI's or Amsoil 20W-50 for longer intervals is the way to go.
dnewton3
Staff member
Skunky - given the relative good quality of oils and engines today, I think it's hard to destroy any motor nowdays.
But your humor was not lost on me!
But your humor was not lost on me!
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Skunky - given the relative good quality of oils and engines today, I think it's hard to destroy any motor nowdays.
But your humor was not lost on me!
Your right..it's hard to destroy a motor with today's oil and if your buddy is a bar hopper, he could run 0-20 oil in his Harley.
Think about this...air cooled motors don't have the tight tolerances that water cooled overhead cam motors do. That extra slop is absorbed by the oil.
HD is a different beast...push rod, cam chain shoes, can chain, dry sump, rear cylinder behind front(unlike BMW and MotoGuzzi), valves that rattle in their guides, pistons that you can eat a Thanksgiving dinner on, and a lean EFI to meet EPA.
Also remember, us guys over 60 are on prescription meds that don't always work in harmony..
My hands still shake when I pour 5-20 oil in my F-150..
Have your buddy try the Brad Penn or RevTec oil if he wants to use dino. My Indy sells both.
BTW..what oil do you use in the GL1800? Just ask'en.
Have a great day..
Skunky - given the relative good quality of oils and engines today, I think it's hard to destroy any motor nowdays.
But your humor was not lost on me!
Your right..it's hard to destroy a motor with today's oil and if your buddy is a bar hopper, he could run 0-20 oil in his Harley.
Think about this...air cooled motors don't have the tight tolerances that water cooled overhead cam motors do. That extra slop is absorbed by the oil.
HD is a different beast...push rod, cam chain shoes, can chain, dry sump, rear cylinder behind front(unlike BMW and MotoGuzzi), valves that rattle in their guides, pistons that you can eat a Thanksgiving dinner on, and a lean EFI to meet EPA.
Also remember, us guys over 60 are on prescription meds that don't always work in harmony..
My hands still shake when I pour 5-20 oil in my F-150..
Have your buddy try the Brad Penn or RevTec oil if he wants to use dino. My Indy sells both.
BTW..what oil do you use in the GL1800? Just ask'en.
Have a great day..
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
PT1, Skunky - thanks. In no way do I mean to discount your experiences. They just don't match up with mine. That doesn't make us wrong; just gives us different viewpoints.
True...there are probably thousands of HD's running on Rotella...but I don't have the bucks to get another one so I gotta feel comfortable with my lube when sitting in Summer traffic. Just my anal-retentive genetics taking control.
PT1, Skunky - thanks. In no way do I mean to discount your experiences. They just don't match up with mine. That doesn't make us wrong; just gives us different viewpoints.
True...there are probably thousands of HD's running on Rotella...but I don't have the bucks to get another one so I gotta feel comfortable with my lube when sitting in Summer traffic. Just my anal-retentive genetics taking control.
dnewton3
Staff member
I've never ridden or owned one, but the Yamaha Warrior is very similar to the HDs. Air-cooled V-twin, pushrod actuation, fuel injected, similar power, etc. I don't suspect anyone runs a 60 grade in them, but like I said, I have little knowledge about that specific bike. What does Yamaha suggest as an oil grade? I would gather it might be a 10w-40? I'm not telling; I'm aking because I don't know. But it would be interesting as a fair comparison. This would be another plausible application for 15w-40 HDEO?
Currently, I'm using up my old CI-4+ Rotella in my GL1800. I've typically used 40 grade oil. Recently, I've purchased a large amount of Rotella 10w-30 HDEO gallons for future use in my Kubota, my Goldwing, my air-cooled lawn equipment, and my 1966 Mustang 289 V-8, etc. They all spec 30 grade as applicable, so I'm going to try it next.
My buddy and I are hard core riders. We start out on a weekend morning, and return that night. Often 400+ miles in a day; all backroads and state highways for the scenic routes. I'm not a bar-hopper, in that regard. Don't like riding in large groups (too many potty breaks and constant fuel-stops). We like to ride long and hard. That's probably why we've had such good luck with HDEO. Engines might get warm, but they stay cooled by (relative) constant motion. Occasionally we'll ride to a race (Indy 500, Brickyard, etc) or a car show, for the ease of parking, etc. But overall, our bikes stay moving. So super-hot idling doesn't happen often for us. So, the HDEO UOAs show little to nil difference when compared to the expensive POAs.
I'm sure that a lot of our experiences come from different riding styles, perhaps. And the OP (remember him?) should consider his riding preferences when selecting a lube. I think for most bikes, even air-cooled ones, HDEOs work perfectly well if used with reasonable OCIs and a high amount of air cooling flow. To the contrary, if long idling and ultra-high heat are often experienced, then I'd agree that a higher grade might be a better choice. But I still ask if the cost is worth the results, looking at expense of motorcycle-only PAOs. Perhaps, if a higher grade is warranted, then a dino PCMO 20w-50 oil from a major brand such as Valvoline, Mobil, etc is a good choice, and just shorten the OCI a bit. Admittedly, I would never suggest a 30 grade in a Harley; there are limits to my phillosophy, after all.
Anyone choosing a lube should always consider several things when making the selection. Operating environment, severity of use, cost of product, availability of product, OCI length, ease of service, etc. They all play into the decision. All I'm saying to the OP in this case, is consider all the options; perhaps HDEO would fit the scenario, for a LOT less than MC-PAOs. And let the UOAs be his guide.
After all, isn't experimentation and sharing the results the ultimate joy of the BITOG experience?
Currently, I'm using up my old CI-4+ Rotella in my GL1800. I've typically used 40 grade oil. Recently, I've purchased a large amount of Rotella 10w-30 HDEO gallons for future use in my Kubota, my Goldwing, my air-cooled lawn equipment, and my 1966 Mustang 289 V-8, etc. They all spec 30 grade as applicable, so I'm going to try it next.
My buddy and I are hard core riders. We start out on a weekend morning, and return that night. Often 400+ miles in a day; all backroads and state highways for the scenic routes. I'm not a bar-hopper, in that regard. Don't like riding in large groups (too many potty breaks and constant fuel-stops). We like to ride long and hard. That's probably why we've had such good luck with HDEO. Engines might get warm, but they stay cooled by (relative) constant motion. Occasionally we'll ride to a race (Indy 500, Brickyard, etc) or a car show, for the ease of parking, etc. But overall, our bikes stay moving. So super-hot idling doesn't happen often for us. So, the HDEO UOAs show little to nil difference when compared to the expensive POAs.
I'm sure that a lot of our experiences come from different riding styles, perhaps. And the OP (remember him?) should consider his riding preferences when selecting a lube. I think for most bikes, even air-cooled ones, HDEOs work perfectly well if used with reasonable OCIs and a high amount of air cooling flow. To the contrary, if long idling and ultra-high heat are often experienced, then I'd agree that a higher grade might be a better choice. But I still ask if the cost is worth the results, looking at expense of motorcycle-only PAOs. Perhaps, if a higher grade is warranted, then a dino PCMO 20w-50 oil from a major brand such as Valvoline, Mobil, etc is a good choice, and just shorten the OCI a bit. Admittedly, I would never suggest a 30 grade in a Harley; there are limits to my phillosophy, after all.
Anyone choosing a lube should always consider several things when making the selection. Operating environment, severity of use, cost of product, availability of product, OCI length, ease of service, etc. They all play into the decision. All I'm saying to the OP in this case, is consider all the options; perhaps HDEO would fit the scenario, for a LOT less than MC-PAOs. And let the UOAs be his guide.
After all, isn't experimentation and sharing the results the ultimate joy of the BITOG experience?
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It's interesting to note that the newer GL1800 owner's manuals recommend a 10w-30 and some folks use it. Most run a xx-40, while others use even a 20w-50 in their Gold Wings. Checking out the high mileage bikes on the GW forums, - it doesn't appear to make any difference in the longevity. In my mind, the 20w-50 is a bit heavy for that application, but I suppose the proof is in the pudding.
My RoadStar Warrior owner's manual specs Yamalube 20w-40 but I believe the newer manuals recommend a 20w-50.
Anyone?
We (typically) do 30,000+ miles/year but that is split between four bikes. Common, ordinary, garden variety Rotella in the water-cooler ones and 20w-50 synthetic in the Fat Boy. Heck, it only holds three quarts so it's not THAT much more expensive.
There is a thread and UOA out here somewhere on Havoline 20w-50 in a Harley. If I remember correctly, the numbers were excellent.
Random thoughts by Kevin. Your mileage may vary.
My RoadStar Warrior owner's manual specs Yamalube 20w-40 but I believe the newer manuals recommend a 20w-50.
Anyone?
We (typically) do 30,000+ miles/year but that is split between four bikes. Common, ordinary, garden variety Rotella in the water-cooler ones and 20w-50 synthetic in the Fat Boy. Heck, it only holds three quarts so it's not THAT much more expensive.
There is a thread and UOA out here somewhere on Havoline 20w-50 in a Harley. If I remember correctly, the numbers were excellent.
Random thoughts by Kevin. Your mileage may vary.
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"What does Yamaha suggest as an oil grade?"
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/121/all/1/7452/detail.aspx
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/121/all/1/7452/detail.aspx
Originally Posted By: SKUNKY
"What does Yamaha suggest as an oil grade?"
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/121/all/1/7452/detail.aspx
From the 2009 Road Star Warrior Owner's manual
Engine Oil:
Type:
Yamalube 4 20w-50 or SAE 20w-50
Recommended Engine Oil Grade:
API Service SG or higher, JASO standard MA
"What does Yamaha suggest as an oil grade?"
http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outdoor/apparel/apscitemdetail/3/121/all/1/7452/detail.aspx
From the 2009 Road Star Warrior Owner's manual
Engine Oil:
Type:
Yamalube 4 20w-50 or SAE 20w-50
Recommended Engine Oil Grade:
API Service SG or higher, JASO standard MA
dnewton3
Staff member
Kwallowbe shows some good info there. Obviously, dependent upon year of application, but certainly a 40 grade is good to go. That's a fair comparison to a Harley to some degree; air-cooled, v-twin, pushrod actuation, fuel injected, etc.
In no way does Yamaha's specs have any bearing on HD's recommendations, but it goes to show that a 40 grade can be appropriate in some circumstances.
Overall, I'd say we have proved our own point of view, but not discredited the other's. If I were to ride slow and hot, with a lot of idling, I'd possibly choose a 50 grade. But for the type riding I actually do, with plenty of airflow and little idling, HDEO works just fine in a Harley, for a lot less money than any brand of MC-PAO.
In no way does Yamaha's specs have any bearing on HD's recommendations, but it goes to show that a 40 grade can be appropriate in some circumstances.
Overall, I'd say we have proved our own point of view, but not discredited the other's. If I were to ride slow and hot, with a lot of idling, I'd possibly choose a 50 grade. But for the type riding I actually do, with plenty of airflow and little idling, HDEO works just fine in a Harley, for a lot less money than any brand of MC-PAO.
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If I were to ride slow and hot, with a lot of idling, I'd possibly choose a 50 grade. But for the type riding I actually do, with plenty of airflow and little idling, HDEO works just fine in a Harley, for a lot less money than any brand of MC-PAO.
But, it's your buddies bike were worried about..
But, it's your buddies bike were worried about..
dnewton3
Staff member
He's a patsy; he's running oils that we pick for comparison, and then UOA. In my own personal Harleys, I ran HDEO 15w-40; but the bikes are gone.
Now, I'm living vicariously through him! (Isn't that the BITOG way?
) Perhaps I can convince him to buy a third bike! That way, we can run HDEO in one, a 20w-50 PCMO in one, and high dollar PAO M/C oil in the 3rd. Of course, to make good comparisons, we'll have to ride all three bikes at once, so we'll need a few volunteers.
Now, I'm living vicariously through him! (Isn't that the BITOG way?
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3
He's a patsy; he's running oils that we pick for comparison, and then UOA. In my own personal Harleys, I ran HDEO 15w-40; but the bikes are gone.
Now, I'm living vicariously through him! (Isn't that the BITOG way?
) Perhaps I can convince him to buy a third bike! That way, we can run HDEO in one, a 20w-50 PCMO in one, and high dollar PAO M/C oil in the 3rd. Of course, to make good comparisons, we'll have to ride all three bikes at once, so we'll need a few volunteers.
Put your buddy on the phone..we need to talk to him!!!!!
He's a patsy; he's running oils that we pick for comparison, and then UOA. In my own personal Harleys, I ran HDEO 15w-40; but the bikes are gone.
Now, I'm living vicariously through him! (Isn't that the BITOG way?
Thanks for all of your replies. This one has been fun to watch!
I'm still going to break-in the engine on 15W40 HDEO like Rotella or Delvac 1300 and am going to run M1 V-Twin after that since it's widely available and only about 2/3 the cost of Red Line. Not sure what I'm going to use in the primary and transmission yet, but would like to stay with synthetics there too. As to the debate over using HDEOs year-round, I seem to recall a thread from last year where Terry Dyson said that most of his H-D clients were using 40-weights and getting good results with them.
Terry is the man..if it's ok with him. it's ok with me.
I would be interested in that post if you can find it.
"If"....I were to run a HDEO in a HD, I'de look into the John Deere oil...Nothing runs like a Deer.
Now, I ran Mobil 1 5-40 T & SUV in my primary...It worked like a dream. Never had a problem..Factory clutch for 135k miles when I sold it. Ran 2 up and pulled a trailer.
I tried a lot of oils in the trans. All seemed to work well. Remember, it was a 5 speed, EVO..The Slick 50 gear lub was cheap and easy to find. Ok..I know..
..but I had no problems with it.
I also had a great time on this thread..Y'all have a great day..It snowed here last night, so, I have to get the sled dogs out for a run.
I would be interested in that post if you can find it.
"If"....I were to run a HDEO in a HD, I'de look into the John Deere oil...Nothing runs like a Deer.
Now, I ran Mobil 1 5-40 T & SUV in my primary...It worked like a dream. Never had a problem..Factory clutch for 135k miles when I sold it. Ran 2 up and pulled a trailer.
I tried a lot of oils in the trans. All seemed to work well. Remember, it was a 5 speed, EVO..The Slick 50 gear lub was cheap and easy to find. Ok..I know..
I also had a great time on this thread..Y'all have a great day..It snowed here last night, so, I have to get the sled dogs out for a run.
Ps..remember, in the 07 and up HD's, they went to a parent bearing in the cams..Google that one..the only thing between self destruction and long life is the oil.
There are a number of oils that I did not mention in my original list as I was trying to keep the length somewhat short but if you are looking for a good oil in the $5.00 class it is worth mentioning Brad Penn. The air cooled Porsche crowd have been going crazy over this and dealers are having trouble keeping it in stock. Best bet to get this is via the web at places like theoilwarehouse.com. It is a GII+ GIII blend. The 911 guys do track time, UOAs, tear downs, you name it as they take their oil pretty seriously. A lot of positive feedback. I have considered it as a M1 15w50 replacement for old betsy and may purchase it next year. Reports indicate that it holds its grade very well, has adequate ZDDP, etc. Read up on the net if interested. Paticularly in the Pelican Parts 911 tech forum. Brad Penn even has a Vtwin oil on the market but I would think that it is probably their 20w50 racing oil in a motorcycle bottle.
Originally Posted By: EagleFTE
There are a number of oils that I did not mention in my original list as I was trying to keep the length somewhat short but if you are looking for a good oil in the $5.00 class it is worth mentioning Brad Penn. The air cooled Porsche crowd have been going crazy over this and dealers are having trouble keeping it in stock. Best bet to get this is via the web at places like theoilwarehouse.com. It is a GII+ GIII blend.
No, it's not. The Penn Grade 1 racing oils in 0w30, 10w30, and 20w50 are all Group I/PAO blends. The straight grades are all Group I. There's no Group II or III in any of them. You can see this in the MSDS and I verified it in an e-mail exchange with a tech at Brad Penn.
I use the 20w50 in my Harley.
There are a number of oils that I did not mention in my original list as I was trying to keep the length somewhat short but if you are looking for a good oil in the $5.00 class it is worth mentioning Brad Penn. The air cooled Porsche crowd have been going crazy over this and dealers are having trouble keeping it in stock. Best bet to get this is via the web at places like theoilwarehouse.com. It is a GII+ GIII blend.
No, it's not. The Penn Grade 1 racing oils in 0w30, 10w30, and 20w50 are all Group I/PAO blends. The straight grades are all Group I. There's no Group II or III in any of them. You can see this in the MSDS and I verified it in an e-mail exchange with a tech at Brad Penn.
I use the 20w50 in my Harley.
I have never used it nor do I know anyone else (except you) using it in a Harley but certainly it is gaining market share and looks like a great product. As many know it is made at the old Kendall plant now owned by American Refining Group. Like I said the Porsche 911 crowd has been using it and testing it and it gets great reviews.
As for base oils here is what I have from their web site so I'm surprised a tech is saying it is a PAO / GI. LN Enginerring who are one of many distributors has been saying all along that it is a mineral base GII+/GIII.
Product Bulletin for Product Code 7157 Brad Penn V2 20W50 MC Oil
“formulated with mineral based Pennsylvania Grade base oils and superior additive chemistry specifically designed with twin V domestic and imported motorcycle engine technology/lubrication needs in mind.”
MSDS for Product Code 7157 Brad Penn V2 20W50 MC Oil, dated 09/14/07
Petroleum Hydrocarbon plus additives
Severely hydrotreated/hydrocracked base oils 70-80%
Synthetic hydrocarbon base oils 5-10%
Additives 5-10%
Solvent refined residual oil 1-5%
As for base oils here is what I have from their web site so I'm surprised a tech is saying it is a PAO / GI. LN Enginerring who are one of many distributors has been saying all along that it is a mineral base GII+/GIII.
Product Bulletin for Product Code 7157 Brad Penn V2 20W50 MC Oil
“formulated with mineral based Pennsylvania Grade base oils and superior additive chemistry specifically designed with twin V domestic and imported motorcycle engine technology/lubrication needs in mind.”
MSDS for Product Code 7157 Brad Penn V2 20W50 MC Oil, dated 09/14/07
Petroleum Hydrocarbon plus additives
Severely hydrotreated/hydrocracked base oils 70-80%
Synthetic hydrocarbon base oils 5-10%
Additives 5-10%
Solvent refined residual oil 1-5%
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