Mobil 1 10/40 racing oil vs Mobil 1 20/50 V twin ?

[daz]

I hear conflicting info regarding whether in my case 10/40 would be fine or whether i should stay with the V twin i am using. Every case is of course different so, Triumph 1700 thunderbird cruiser, water cooled parallel twin with 6500 redline, so cal area with summer temps up to 110 or more tops, tho i only really ride u to maybe 100 degrees and even then it would be short rides only. I've been told 10/40 is as protective as i'd ever need but i would like to hear of actual testing that proves or disproves this. Anyone know of such testing, especially if it takes into account the type of engine? Also, the 10/40 M1 is called "racing". What does that tell me about whether it's a good or bad choice in a cruiser like mine? Seems odd that mobil would make 2 common weights and then call one of them racing oil which seems to disqualify it for use in non racing bikes. And please lets not make it a oil recommendation thread. W/O going into why, i will only be using M1 whether the Vtwin i use now or the 10/40 if i decide your answers suggest it's fine. By the way, i would like to try the 10/40 to see if i get a tad better mileage and potential quicker spin up as i have noted in the past on other bikes compared to 20/50

 

[ZeeOSix]

Does the owner's manual show that 10W-40 is an option, and if so what is the ambient temperature range that it shows for 10W-40?

 

[BigCahuna]

My recently purchased Kawasaki Voyager, has a 1700 cc V-twin, water cooled engine with the engine oil shared with the trans. Kawasaki strongly states that 10/40 wt, not necessarily "racing oil" is pretty much the only type of oil needed in the bike. But, it does list 20/50 as an alternative. I take that to mean if your going to be riding long distances, in hot weather for long periods of time, using the 20/50 might help with oil consumption. And being the trans also shares the engines oil, hard usage might cause the oil to shear down a grade or two. As far as racing oil goes, if your a serious racer using a lighter grade might free up a horse power or two over a 20/50 grade. Setting the bike up with multiple runs on a dyno, would answer that question.,,

 

[Ride_Red]

Water cooled engines are typically better at controlling engine temperatures regardless of ambient temperature. My Honda ST1300 (120hp) and my NC700x (50hp), both water cooled, recommend 10W-30 for all temperature ranges.

What does your owner's manual recommend?

 

[daz]

Manual recommends either but doesn't elaborate as to which to chose or why.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

By the way, i would like to try the 10/40 to see if i get a tad better mileage and potential quicker spin up as i have noted in the past on other bikes compared to 20/50

Does a change of grade = a change of wear???

Blackstone's 35 years worth of racing and street motorcycle oil
analysis shows no significant differences in WEAR between the grades
or brands... potentially the 40 or 50 motorcycle specific oils are the right
stuff to meet and exceed your mileage expectations...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Manual recommends either but doesn't elaborate as to which to chose or why.

There must be an ambient temperature range based on the viscosity they recommend.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Does a change of grade = a change of wear???

Many engine wear studies say otherwise. You should read a few sometime.

Blackstone's 35 years worth of racing and street motorcycle oil analysis shows no significant differences in WEAR between the grades or brands.

Where is the link to this group of UOA data summary that Blackstone has done that specifically separates it for motorcycles used on a race track? Don't think they have done that at all ... if so, where is the data?

 

[daz]

There must be an ambient temperature range based on the viscosity they recommend.

All it says is triumph engines are designed to use 10w40 or 15w50 semi or fully synthetic motorcycle engine oil. (yes, i know v twin is 20 not 15, no matter) Other then that it just mentions the specifications like JASO etc, the typical ones for a wet clutch motorcycle engine. Thats it. No mention what so ever of ambient temps or any of that.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Many engine wear studies say otherwise. You should read a few sometime.

"if so, where is the data?"

Where is the link to this group of UOA data summary that Blackstone has done that specifically separates it for motorcycles used on a race track? Don't think they have done that at all ... if so, where is the data?

If you have any suggestions how Blackstone data could be more meaningful to
you contact them here... https://www.blackstone-labs.com/contact/

 

[ZeeOSix]

All it says is triumph engines are designed to use 10w40 or 15w50 semi or fully synthetic motorcycle engine oil. (yes, i know v twin is 20 not 15, no matter) Other then that it just mentions the specifications like JASO etc, the typical ones for a wet clutch motorcycle engine. Thats it. No mention what so ever of ambient temps or any of that.

This is the oil viscosity chart for my Yamaha XSR900, and most bike owner's manuals will have a similar chart. I'm really surprised that the Triumph owner's manual doesn't have a similar chart. As you can see, the xW-40 viscosity is good for up to 110 deg F ambient temperature. The xW-50 is good for up to 120 deg F. Even in CA, the 10W-40 should give adequate protection.

 

[ZeeOSix]

"if so, where is the data?"

It's all over the internet in SAE studies, etc ... go do some research.

 

[daz]

This is the oil viscosity chart for my Yamaha XSR900, and most bike owner's manuals will have a similar chart. I'm really surprised that the Triumph owner's manual doesn't have a similar chart. As you can see, the xW-40 viscosity is good for up to 110 deg F ambient temperature. The xW-50 is good for up to 120 deg F. Even in CA, the 10W-40 should give adequate protection.

View attachment 113266

Well then i would think 10w40 would be more then fine for mine, especially considering the yamaha is a high strung sport engine that probably has a much higher CR and redlines twice as high as mine. And i NEVER ride at 110 degress. Maybe 105 at times for a few blocks to go to the store but thats as hot as i go and never ore then a couple miles.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

It's all over the internet in SAE studies, etc ... go do some research.

Negative they are not all over the net like you're thinking... SAE studies are $33.00 each @sae.org...

 

[ZeeOSix]

SAE studies are $33.00 each... they are not all over the net like you're thinking...

There are all kinds of technical papers addressing engine wear vs viscosity. Go look, it's not hard to find them. You don't hang out in the PCMO forum, so you miss all kinds of technical info that you are blind to. Viscosity has a direct correlation to wear when all other factors are held constant. Go look for yourself.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Negative... if you ever done any SAE research... SAE studies are $33.00 each @sae.org...

 

[ZeeOSix]

^^^ I said "etc". Go look, don't be blind, lol.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Viscosity has a direct correlation to wear when all other factors are held constant. Go look for yourself.

I did... and what I found supports the 40 over the 50 because start up before warm up is where a large part of an engine’s wear occurs... advantage free flowing 40... Once the oil reaches operating temperature analysis shows no significant differences in WEAR between the grades...

Quote Yamaha

Yamalube 5W30 is designed from synthetic and mineral base stocks to provide the best
extreme cold-weather performance possible for all Yamaha Snowmobiles.
Gives extra protection during the critical cold-start period where a
large part of an engine’s wear could occur.

Quote Amsoil

60% of total engine wear occurs during cold start up
conditions before oil can circulate through the engine...

Quote Lake Speed Jr certified lubrication specialist at Driven Racing Oil.

“While a thicker viscosity grade is a workable solution, remember that
70 percent of engine wear occurs at start-up, so a higher viscosity
grade actually causes more wear, and we have used oil analysis that
shows this,” says Speed.

Quote 540Rat

"Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating
critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can.
Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can
reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help
reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall."

Quote Frank McCowan, former Electrical /Mechanical Small and Large Equip.
Mech at Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority...

Listen to Jim Trainers answer below, it is mostly accurate. most
engine wear occurs during not only the first few minutes, but in the
first few seconds from when the engine is started.

Quote Jim Trainor, diy car maintenance guy

"The oil pressure takes a moment to come up and it takes a moment for
the oil to start circulating. There are bearing surfaces in your car,
called “journal bearings” that are quite literally two pieces of metal
separated by a film of oil that is delivered in under pressure in a
continuous flow. These surfaces do not touch when the engine is
operating normally. Other bearing surfaces, such as cam followers, and
piston rings, do touch but are subject to a continuous flow of
lubricating oil. When you start the car there are a few moments where
the oil is absent from these surfaces. Hence increased wear occurs."

Quote EAA ( Experimental Aircraft Association)

"When we first crank the engine, there's no oil pressure and the
crankshaft cranking speed is pathetically slow. The conditions for
hydrodynamic lubrication simply do not exist. Consequently, there is
metal-to-metal contact between the journal and the bearing, and wear
is inevitable."

 

[ZeeOSix]

Quote 540Rat

You just lost all credibility in your research, lol.

The KV100 viscosity of an oil has absolutely nothing to do with cold start-up and "wear during start-up" ... that is deoendant on the "W" viscosity rating of the oil. And a positive displacement oil pump ensures adequate lubrication if the correct W rating is used for the ambient conditions. That's the whole reason ehy SAE came up with a W rating based on cold cranking and pumpability viscosity limits.

Go look at engine wear vs viscosity when the oil is at operating temperature, that's what I'm talking about in terms of HTHS and MOFT wrt to engine wear vs. those performance parameters as a function of viscosity.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Go look at engine wear vs viscosity when the oil is at operating temperature,

Mercy Zee when is the last time you looked 1950??? because once our current oils reache operating temperature analysis shows no significant differences in WEAR between the grades...