M1 FS 0W40 vs. Castrol Edge 0W40

Foxtrot08

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Likely the SV series if from infineum, but we can't be sure. Aren't xom known in the industry for their "ability" to tweak some packages and get their product approved by the oems? @Foxtrot08 pointed out in some thread that they don't rely exclusively on infineum. Maybe at some point they tweaked some "Inbrizol/Inbriztonite" pack, and i bet that they do have some pretty good connection with vanderbilt, basf, lanxess, akzo or evonik. Why would they do that? Maybe because they just can. How did they get the approval? Maybe they had or have some mb/vw/porsche engines lying around in their lab :ROFLMAO:

Any blender can tweak additive packages if they want. If you solubilize your own additives, it’s even easier.

That said to meet the A40 specs, I’m not sure if you need to send a sample to get tested. Or if it’s a self certified test. Independent test. Or if it’s something where if you follow a specific blend, you can just certify it as it was done by the additive manufacturer.

The wording I found on the A40 test is vague. But it seems like you send a sample to Porsche to test. And pay for the test. Then it’s pass/fail after that.

So they may change additive companies, or change blends slightly, perhaps a bit of mix and match, to get that spec. They may use infinium additives with maybe a Lubrizol Vii. Or maybe A mix of a few things.
 
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I looked at the shear stability, oxidation stability, wear, and everything on J300, we have all of those instruments in our lab. The FS 0w40 is a solid product as I said. If you are comfortable with the SAPS level it’s probably the best value out there.

I did not make any attempt to figure out how they formulate. That does not matter to me. I was only looking at the end results. To me what it does is more important than what it is.

David
I would expect the oil to be a solid performer - in the lab - given its approvals. In situ, I would assume engine tear down results with race team partners would be kept exclusively between them and the XoM formulators. As for the teams, one would say continued use equals approval.
 
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I've run both M1 and Castrol 0W40 in our M45:
Both performed well, but it does look like Castrol may have stayed closer to its starting viscosity. But keep in mind, previous oil to M1 was a 30 grade, while previous oil to Castrol was M1 0W40, so that plays a factor. Wear metals are also better on the Castrol, but again, probably more due to washing out of contaminants. If I used Castrol before M1, the results would probably be flip-flopped. Lastly, TBN retention was nearly identical. M1 averaged 1.18 TBN per 1000 mi while Castrol was 1.15. In my book, both are really good and you'd be splitting hairs to find which is better.
 
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I've run both M1 and Castrol 0W40 in our M45.
Both performed well, but it does look like Castrol may have stayed closer to its starting viscosity.
This was my experience with M1 Euro 0W-40 versus Castrol Euro 0W-40 in both my MB's. The Castrol remained closer to starting viscosity versus the M1.
 
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I would choose Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4 over Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 A3/B4 over principle because Mobil 1 still hasn't updated to API SP with a modern mixed calcium–magnesium detergent. I think Mobil 1 might have given up on the European market and no longer care about the performance of their European oils.
I know it’s not part of the comp, but would the PP Euro 0w40 be your preferred choice with its API SP certification?
 
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I know it’s not part of the comp, but would the PP Euro 0w40 be your preferred choice with its API SP certification?
Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 SP A3/B4 (not 0W-40) is probably the best choice out of the four—HTHS = 3.85 cP, HTFS = 2.78 cP, VII = 5.2%. In contrast, Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 SP A3/B4 has HTHS = 3.55 cP, HTFS = 2.27 cP, VII = 8.4%.

 

OVERKILL

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I would choose Castrol 0W-40 A3/B4 over Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 A3/B4 over principle because Mobil 1 still hasn't updated to API SP with a modern mixed calcium–magnesium detergent. I think Mobil 1 might have given up on the European market and no longer care about the performance of their European oils.
Incoming:
Screen Shot 2022-11-04 at 11.22.50 PM.jpg


It's updated to SP and now has a -60C Pour Point.

Thanks to @travis8352 for giving me the heads-up on this change.
 
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Incoming:
View attachment 124582

It's updated to SP and now has a -60C Pour Point.

Thanks to @travis8352 for giving me the heads-up on this change.
Nice, perhaps they saw my post. 😜

It has the AVTOVAZ (LADA cars) approval now! Given that, it is totally impossible to go wrong with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 SP now, despite the blatant lack of BMW approval. ;)

VAZ_2101_BW_2016-09-03_13-51-58.jpg


A very low pour point can also point to a very low HTFS (a very thin base oil), which probably does.

If you are looking for a stout A3/B4 XW-40, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-40 A3/B4 SP is the way to go, not these thin 0W-40 oils packed with VII. PP 5W-40 A3/B4 SP is a lot thicker in both HTHS and HTFS than these thin 0W-40 oils. A 0W-40 could be as thin as a 0W-20 in the valvetrain and rings—and even in the bearings at high RPMs—so, be warned. There are actually 0W-20 oils that are thicker than these 0W-40 oils in those areas and situations. More VII means a thinner base oil because otherwise the oil will not the pass the low-temperature pumping viscosity (MRV) test.
 
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Nice, perhaps they saw my post. 😜

It has the AVTOVAZ (LADA cars) approval now! Given that, it is totally impossible to go wrong with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 SP now, despite the blatant lack of BMW approval. ;)

A very low pour point can also point to a very low HTFS (a very thin base oil), which probably does.

If you are looking for a stout A3/B4 XW-40, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-40 A3/B4 SP is the way to go, not these watery 0W-40 oils packed with VII. PP 5W-40 A3/B4 SP is a lot thicker in both HTHS and HTFS than these water-like thin 0W-40 oils. A 0W-40 could be thinner than a 0W-20 in the valvetrain and rings—and even in the bearings at high RPMs—so, be warned.
It oxidize too much for BMW liking.
But, I am glad they kept stout PAO package unlike apparently Castrol.

You are right about Pennzoil. I am running now that (thanx to donation from Pennzoil :) ), and although I had really tough track day on it, can’t see any consumption, unlike with M1 0W40 that liked to “go away” in small quantities.
 
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It looks like the viscosity and VII content hasn't changed from SN to SP, but they roughly doubled the PAO content to 30–40% according to the MSDS. Of course, the detergent changed from mostly Ca to mixed Ca–Mg.

HTHS = 3.6 cP (estimated by @OVERKILL and I)
HTFS = 2.3 cP
VII = 8%

 
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It looks like the viscosity and VII content hasn't changed from SN to SP, but they roughly doubled the PAO content to 30–40% according to the MSDS. Of course, the detergent changed from mostly Ca to mixed Ca–Mg.

HTHS = 3.6 cP (estimated by @OVERKILL and I)
HTFS = 2.3 cP
VII = 8%

Wasn’t PAO always there in that range?
To me it looks like minor tweak just to get SP. Which tells how far ahead of API these oils are already.
Quaker State 5W40 is what PPE 5W40 SN+ was. They didn’t change anything, but it has SP.
 
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Wasn’t PAO always there in that range?
To me it looks like minor tweak just to get SP. Which tells how far ahead of API these oils are already.
Quaker State 5W40 is what PPE 5W40 SN+ was. They didn’t change anything, but it has SP.
It is hard to keep track of the ever-varying PAO content in Mobil 1 oils, but the HTFS sheet lists a 10–20% PAO content for M1 FS 0W-40 SN.

 

Jackson_Slugger

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Nice, perhaps they saw my post. 😜

It has the AVTOVAZ (LADA cars) approval now! Given that, it is totally impossible to go wrong with Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 SP now, despite the blatant lack of BMW approval. ;)

VAZ_2101_BW_2016-09-03_13-51-58.jpg


A very low pour point can also point to a very low HTFS (a very thin base oil), which probably does.

If you are looking for a stout A3/B4 XW-40, Pennzoil Platinum 5W-40 A3/B4 SP is the way to go, not these thin 0W-40 oils packed with VII. PP 5W-40 A3/B4 SP is a lot thicker in both HTHS and HTFS than these thin 0W-40 oils. A 0W-40 could be as thin as a 0W-20 in the valvetrain and rings—and even in the bearings at high RPMs—so, be warned. There are actually 0W-20 oils that are thicker than these 0W-40 oils in those areas and situations. More VII means a thinner base oil because otherwise the oil will not the pass the low-temperature pumping viscosity (MRV) test.


With a Lada, it might be impossible to go right....

What is the Trabant spec?
 

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Wasn’t PAO always there in that range?
To me it looks like minor tweak just to get SP. Which tells how far ahead of API these oils are already.
Quaker State 5W40 is what PPE 5W40 SN+ was. They didn’t change anything, but it has SP.
I believe Mobil reduced the Pao content 4-5 years ago to only about 20% and consequently the pour point went up, but in the latest formulation they seem to have added PAO back in hence the -60C pp.
 

Jackson_Slugger

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I didn't realize that most Trabbis were 2-cyl. engines until the end, when they got the VW Polo one. So much for commies caring about the environment... :D

The Trabant could be quite the decadent luxurious experience though, just ask Bono:
BN-UF200_MYRIDE_P_20170710122414.jpg
 
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I believe Mobil reduced the Pao content 4-5 years ago to only about 20% and consequently the pour point went up, but in the latest formulation they seem to have added PAO back in hence the -60C pp.
Can’t remember for pour point ever going up.
 

OVERKILL

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It looks like the viscosity and VII content hasn't changed from SN to SP, but they roughly doubled the PAO content to 30–40% according to the MSDS. Of course, the detergent changed from mostly Ca to mixed Ca–Mg.

HTHS = 3.6 cP (estimated by @OVERKILL and I)
HTFS = 2.3 cP
VII = 8%

I'm going to e-mail them and see if they'll give us HTHS, though I'm not holding my breath, lol.
 

OVERKILL

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It is hard to keep track of the ever-varying PAO content in Mobil 1 oils, but the HTFS sheet lists a 10–20% PAO content for M1 FS 0W-40 SN.

Yeah, that SDS still has a very old KV100 on it (13.8), and it's from earlier in the year. I'm holding out to see they update it again in the next month to match the current PDS.
 
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