Move to M1 FS 0W40 ?

[Patman]

Did you know the cause of the thinning? Was it fuel dilution or actual mechanical shear of the VM? Fuel dilution isn't necessarily a constant nor consistent problem depending on the weather and driving habits.

Lately it's been shown that M1 0W-40 is very shear stable, as you've probably seen in that other thread.

Her car didn’t have an issue with fuel dilution at all (UOAs done by Wearcheck and they are accurate in that regard) She had the 3.0L six which I believe is an engine that beats up on the oil pretty good. This time period was back in the 2014-2018 era, so it was an older version of the oil.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Cars learn their craft from people. As a result, they don't always tell the truth. Plus, math projections / formulas hold gray areas. So the car can lie to you and get away with it, without reprise or penalty.

Don't believe those 2% Shenanigans..... no sirree.

 

[Patman]

Cars learn their craft from people. As a result, they don't always tell the truth. Plus, math projections / formulas hold gray areas. So the car can lie to you and get away with it, without reprise or penalty.

Don't believe those 2% Shenanigans..... no sirree.

If you are referring to the fact that I trust the OLM in my Corvette then you should remember that I have a 20 year history of owning three different Corvettes which have an OLM and I have pushed those OLMs down to zero and had UOAs that prove that it’s safe. I’m not just blindly trusting them, although my experiences give others confidence that they can trust them. GM did a lot of testing with their OLMs and they have developed very good ones in the Corvettes.

 

[OVERKILL]

If you are referring to the fact that I trust the OLM in my Corvette then you should remember that I have a 20 year history of owning three different Corvettes which have an OLM and I have pushed those OLMs down to zero and had UOAs that prove that it’s safe. I’m not just blindly trusting them, although my experiences give others confidence that they can trust them. GM did a lot of testing with their OLMs and they have developed very good ones in the Corvettes.

Yes, a properly developed mathemetical model based on operational inputs is far better at determining the suitable change schedule for a lubricant than some arbitrary distance travelled. Using miles is like using number of lawns mowed for an OPE.

 

[Azimuth]

M1 0W40 has European approvals BMW LL01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40, VW 502.00. Those are most stringent approvals on the market.

Even more stringent than their mid SAPS counterparts (LL04, 229.51/52, C40, 504/507)?

 

[chris719]

Now that you guys are starting to see ESP 5w30 at Walmart and at the same price (or close) as M1 0w40, I think that ESP is actually the better option for most. Lower SAPS, more shear stable, has the same HTHS and would likely have a higher HTHS than 0w40 after a few thousand miles too. I also am assuming that ESP 5w30 has less VII as well. But then again I have never really been a big fan of M1 0w40 after running it in my ex wife’s BMW for a few intervals and seeing how much it thinned out. Long time users of this forum will know that one of my biggest concerns with an oil is that it needs to retain it’s viscosity over the course of a decently long interval. It’s one of the big reasons why I loved the original GC 0w30 so much! It would barely change viscosity even after 8 or 9000 miles.

I asked an XOM engineer if ESP 5W-30 would be preferable to FS 0W-40 for an S55 engine if performance / protection is the concern and he said he’d stick with the 0W-40. Unfortunately he didn’t elaborate and I wanted to be respectful of his time.

 

[Azimuth]

I asked an XOM engineer if ESP 5W-30 would be preferable to FS 0W-40 for an S55 engine if performance / protection is the concern and he said he’d stick with the 0W-40. Unfortunately he didn’t elaborate and I wanted to be respectful of his time.

I would have been curious to compare the FS 0W-40 with the ESP X3 0W-40.

 

[Torrid]

In my opinion 0w40 is probably the most universal oil option that can safely cover the most modern vehicles on the market. I now have a VW502 requirement vehicle that has many 0w40 oils that cover that, but before I had that vehicle I've used M1 0w40 in many cars that called for 5w30 and 5w20 with no issue. It's always been on my shelf.

 

[chris719]

I would have been curious to compare the FS 0W-40 with the ESP X3 0W-40.

He basically said the ESP X3 was better for the engines which it was specified for, but that he would not recommend deviating where it wasn’t specified (i.e. BMW) since it had never been tested in a BMW group engine. I read into it that he’s being conservative with that answer. Don’t think there’s much in it either way though.

 

[chris719]

Even more stringent than their mid SAPS counterparts (LL04, 229.51/52, C40, 504/507)?

Most of the mid SAPS specs seem to have identical wear limits as updated full SAPS specs. I suspect that a full SAPS oil will always have the design freedom to be better than mid SAPS but it’s unknown if this is true in real world formulations. If you look at the highest performance mid saps oils like ESP X3, think it’s not a coincidence they are right near the C3 upper limit.

 

[edyvw]

Even more stringent than their mid SAPS counterparts (LL04, 229.51/52, C40, 504/507)?

They are similar, if not the same, in wear limits, deposits etc.
The difference is that full SAPS oils have a higher amount of metallic additives and, therefore, have a higher margin at limits.

 

[ChrisD46]

Yes, a properly developed mathemetical model based on operational inputs is far better at determining the suitable change schedule for a lubricant than some arbitrary distance travelled. Using miles is like using number of lawns mowed for an OPE.

*What if vehicles do not have OLM's ? For a given oil fill Hyundai / Kia shows : Hours , miles and months .

 

[Triple_Se7en]

If you are referring to the fact that I trust the OLM in my Corvette then you should remember that I have a 20 year history of owning three different Corvettes which have an OLM and I have pushed those OLMs down to zero and had UOAs that prove that it’s safe. I’m not just blindly trusting them, although my experiences give others confidence that they can trust them. GM did a lot of testing with their OLMs and they have developed very good ones in the Corvettes.

NO, I am NOT referring to that.
It seems my grandson's Colorado P/U - to this day flashes the Oil Change reading every 11,000 miles. I am familiar with the vehicle because I owned it until 2020. Now it's his.
So I wasn't referring to using that device and I never use them anyways.

Two small pieces of duct tape (one on the drivers door and one under the hood) - both having permanent marker 3k upcoming odometer miles reading on them, is how I gauge the next oil change. In judging calendar time, neither of my vehicles goes beyond 6-8 months, to achieve an additional 3k miles.

 

[OVERKILL]

*What if vehicles do not have OLM's ? For a given oil fill Hyundai / Kia shows : Hours , miles and months .

Then I'd use hours.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Hyunkia vehicles have a Service / Reminder mileage counter. I set mine to 2900 miles, for doing my typical 3k OCIs

I also use a piece of duct tape with permanent marker at the driver side door well.
Addition/Subtraction knowledge required. Otherwise use your phone calculator.
BTW.... so many at cash registers taking our cash money cannot add or subtract single / double-digit numbers.
It's horrifying to witness, for I can also mentally multiply and divide big sets of numbers.

 

[Azimuth]

They are similar, if not the same, in wear limits, deposits etc.
The difference is that full SAPS oils have a higher amount of metallic additives and, therefore, have a higher margin at limits.

Does it make sense to use the Lubrizol tool to compare A40 and C40?

 

[Bullwinkle007]

I doubt anyone would notice a drop in mileage.

I noticed a change in mine between M1 0/40 vs M1 ESP 0/30. Went from 24.5 to 22. Acura 3.5L

 

[OilUzer]

Does it make sense to use the Lubrizol tool to compare A40 and C40?

View attachment 230536

if you can rely on these kind of "tools" or graphs, C40 looks great!
I had heard of A40 but not C40 till now!

Who cares about a little bit of fuel economy? and LSPI, let's not go there.

What is "After Treatment Compatibility"? Sounds more like a surgery post-op than an oil terminology!

 

[Azimuth]

Who cares about a little bit of fuel economy? and LSPI, let's not go there.

What is "After Treatment Compatibility"? Sounds more like a surgery post-op than an oil terminology!

Deposits and sludge seem better as well.

 

[OilUzer]

Deposits and sludge seem better as well.

I am assuming 10 (relative to 0) is better meaning for example less sludge with a 10 than an 8. Is that correct?

These Lubrizol graphs have confused me before. For example what is the diff between a 10 and an 8? Are we splitting hair or is it really significant like 20%?