How is HTHS measured?

[edyvw]

Yep, but it answered the question

Ah. Yes. I see. I think Castrol Edge 5W40 is 3.64.

 

[fantastic]

HTHS is not the whole story. Mobil1 0W40 is 3.6 or just bit above. But I would take it on track before pretty much any off the shelf oil.

The SAE test I presented is a valid one regarding the minimums. Last I checked this thread is about how HTHS is measured.

 

[edyvw]

The SAE test I presented is a valid one regarding the minimums. Last I checked this thread is about how HTHS is measured.

It is valid one. This topic is about HTHS. And point is?

 

[fantastic]

It is valid one. This topic is about HTHS. And point is?

No point, Carry on...

 

[fantastic]

I think it's important to differentiate between HDEO grades and Euro grades here, since the HDEO's, generally, have higher HTHS, even in the same grades as the Euros (0W-40/5W-40/10W-40), hence my D1 example, which has a much higher HTHS than your typical Euro 0W-40.

I agree but also think it's somewhat more complicated than that for us BITOG's LOL There's the 2017+ FA-4 HDEO's that really seek out MPG as an example. Those are going to allow lower HTHS. Then we have superior Euro's like product below with HTHS at 4.4.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-euro-5w40-voa.392589/#post-7159786

 

[OVERKILL]

I agree but also think it's somewhat more complicated than that for us BITOG's LOL There's the 2017+ FA-4 HDEO's that really seek out MPG as an example. Those are going to allow lower HTHS. Then we have superior Euro's like product below with HTHS at 4.4.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-euro-5w40-voa.392589/#post-7159786

Yeah, the Redline white bottle stuff always has high HTHS for the grade, so that's not surprising. The P66/Kendall 5W-40 with actual approvals (Redline Professional Series) that you also linked is more typical, with an HTHS of 3.7cP.

 

[edyvw]

I agree but also think it's somewhat more complicated than that for us BITOG's LOL There's the 2017+ FA-4 HDEO's that really seek out MPG as an example. Those are going to allow lower HTHS. Then we have superior Euro's like product below with HTHS at 4.4.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-euro-5w40-voa.392589/#post-7159786

But that is not approved oil. Motul 300V has KV100 13.5 but HTHS is 4cP!

 

[FlyingTexan]

I agree but also think it's somewhat more complicated than that for us BITOG's LOL There's the 2017+ FA-4 HDEO's that really seek out MPG as an example. Those are going to allow lower HTHS. Then we have superior Euro's like product below with HTHS at 4.4.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/red-line-euro-5w40-voa.392589/#post-7159786

That was created for the F150 Ecodiesel wasn't it? I think I was using it in my 3.0L LR Discovery

 

[FlyingTexan]

But that is not approved oil. Motul 300V has KV100 13.5 but HTHS is 4cP!

Honest question.... Lets say you had an engine failure. You have an oil like Redline or Amsoil that says it's "Recommended for" or "meets or exceeds". So they feel it's pretty good. 1) Can someone actually pull a sample and determine if the oil in the engine met a spec? On my B58 could they say "Hey this euro oil doesn't meet LL01FE or LL01"? 2) If a company says it's "recommended for" or "meets or exceeds" does the oil company back a motor claim? Like QS saying they warrant 300,000 miles?

 

[edyvw]

Honest question.... Lets say you had an engine failure. You have an oil like Redline or Amsoil that says it's "Recommended for" or "meets or exceeds". So they feel it's pretty good. 1) Can someone actually pull a sample and determine if the oil in the engine met a spec? On my B58 could they say "Hey this euro oil doesn't meet LL01FE or LL01"? 2) If a company says it's "recommended for" or "meets or exceeds" does the oil company back a motor claim? Like QS saying they warrant 300,000 miles?

They could if the wanted (protracted law suit). If that is contention point, they will ask oil receipts and deny if it is not approved oil.
If you sue them they could prove it if the wanted to.

 

[fantastic]

But that is not approved oil. Motul 300V has KV100 13.5 but HTHS is 4cP!

Approved oil for what? I have no idea what the OP has. Just making a general statement.

That was created for the F150 Ecodiesel wasn't it? I think I was using it in my 3.0L LR Discovery

No, FA-4 shouldn't be used & was not developed for the F-150 or LR.

 

[edyvw]

Approved oil for what? I have no idea what the OP has. Just making a general statement.

No, FA-4 shouldn't be used & was not developed for the F-150 or LR.

It is not approved for anything that is oil intended purpose. That Redline you mentioned. It cannot be approved.

 

[fantastic]

It is not approved for anything that is oil intended purpose. That Redline you mentioned. It cannot be approved.

Doesn't bother me, I was talking about HT/HS not approvals. Several boutique oils don't have any approvals.

 

[edyvw]

Doesn't bother me, I was talking about HT/HS not approvals. Several boutique oils don't have any approvals.

JFC. It cannot be approved partly bcs. HTHS. Limit on BMW LL01 is 4.1cP. On Mercedes I think it is 4cP.
Very high HTHS is part of an issue why it cannot be approved. Redline 5W40 doesn’t have any approval, bcs. it is also made as track/racing oil, so there are other issues. But very high HTHS is part of why it is not approved.

 

[fantastic]

JFC. It cannot be approved partly bcs. HTHS. Limit on BMW LL01 is 4.1cP. On Mercedes I think it is 4cP.
Very high HTHS is part of an issue why it cannot be approved. Redline 5W40 doesn’t have any approval, bcs. it is also made as track/racing oil, so there are other issues. But very high HTHS is part of why it is not approved.

That's Interesting nonetheless.

 

[FlyingTexan]

JFC. It cannot be approved partly bcs. HTHS. Limit on BMW LL01 is 4.1cP. On Mercedes I think it is 4cP.
Very high HTHS is part of an issue why it cannot be approved. Redline 5W40 doesn’t have any approval, bcs. it is also made as track/racing oil, so there are other issues. But very high HTHS is part of why it is not approved.

I put Redline 5w30 in my B58 today. Wanted to see what it was like. It didn't take 30 sec to tell the difference. Smoooooooooth. So far, obviously not an indicator of protection just how the engine feels it's Redline>QS Euro 5w40>Pennzoil Euro L>0w20 trash.

 

[edyvw]

I put Redline 5w30 in my B58 today. Wanted to see what it was like. It didn't take 30 sec to tell the difference. Smoooooooooth. So far, obviously not an indicator of protection just how the engine feels it's Redline>QS Euro 5w40>Pennzoil Euro L>0w20 trash.

Yes, noise is not indicative of protection. M1 for a long time, had a reputation of "loud" oil, but it is one of the best.
RL is sued a lot by people on track. It is a known quality.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Yes, noise is not indicative of protection. M1 for a long time, had a reputation of "loud" oil, but it is one of the best.
RL is sued a lot by people on track. It is a known quality.

sued for what. I get the marketing aspects but looking at the additive packages, tossing manufacturer approvals aside, what's the actual downside? It seems to be better than amsoil. I know it's costly but considering everything else we're just splitting hairs.

 

[martinq]

RL is sued a lot by people on track. It is a known quality.

That is one amazing typo.

 

[edyvw]

sued for what. I get the marketing aspects but looking at the additive packages, tossing manufacturer approvals aside, what's the actual downside? It seems to be better than amsoil. I know it's costly but considering everything else we're just splitting hairs.

lol, used!
OCI. RL is not long drain oil. They are made for shorter OCI, bcs. ester, and with that higher oxidation.
Then there is an issue of deposits etc. I highly doubt that is an issue with Redline, but track/racing oils don't have additive packs designed for street use. Redline, Amsoil, etc., use more street-aimed additives, but in the case of Redline or Motul 300V (Motul 300V is strictly racing oil, but showed really good UOA in my BMW. But that does not tell all story), the ester base stock oxidizes more (especially RL. Motul is actually really good in oxidation control regardless of ester base stock).
Amsoil is different; they are PAO-based and less oxidative and OCI wise on par approved oils. That is my take.