Oil for B58 Ineos Grenadier

[FlyingTexan]

I want to start by saying I don't care what helps meet CAFE/EPA standards. I want what's best for my vehicle in my situation. I'm in the process of purchasing an Ineos Grenadier. It's 3 tons, can tow 7800lbs, going to be my daily driver and I want it to last for a very, very long time. They went with the B58 engine from BMW that's been slightly tuned for a lower HP and they state better torque range. This is what's in the manual states as far as oil. It's a bit vague. The manual seems to be written with Europe in mind so I'm trying to iron out what's best for me in my situation.

I live in Houston, Tx which is hot and humid in the summer. BMW I believe likes LL01 and LL04 specs but the LL04 spec I'm seeing isn't recommended for the USA due to the fuel sulfurs (that's the extent of my knowledge there). I've also read that the LL01 spec was revised in 2018 to increase it's oxidation standards for the timing chain. The Grenadier's B58 doesn't appear to use as high a standard.

The more I read the more I seem to get confused and I see people now touting 0w40 oils. What gives? Wouldn't that be too thick? For the B58 in a heavier vehicle that will do towing and slower overlanding what oil should I be looking at? The Pennzoil Platinum Euro L and Quaker State Euro both look like the newer versions are LL04 certified and not LL01. So a bit confused on where to turn and I plan to do my oil changes at higher intervals (7,500miles) vs the 10k I currently do on my LR Discovery TD6. At least until I get a few UOA's rolling in. I've been running Rotella T6 in everything from my lawmower to my Discovery to my Yamaha 225 SHO outboard motor. I don't know if it'd be right for this application.

 

[dadto2]

And here I thought you were poaching cyclists to start your own team.
https://www.ineosgrenadiers.com/riders

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I want to start by saying I don't care what helps meet CAFE/EPA standards. I want what's best for my vehicle in my situation. I'm in the process of purchasing an Ineos Grenadier. It's 3 tons, can tow 7800lbs, going to be my daily driver and I want it to last for a very, very long time. They went with the B58 engine from BMW that's been slightly tuned for a lower HP and they state better torque range. This is what's in the manual states as far as oil. It's a bit vague. The manual seems to be written with Europe in mind so I'm trying to iron out what's best for me in my situation.


View attachment 191504


I live in Houston, Tx which is hot and humid in the summer. BMW I believe likes LL01 and LL04 specs but the LL04 spec I'm seeing isn't recommended for the USA due to the fuel sulfurs (that's the extent of my knowledge there). I've also read that the LL01 spec was revised in 2018 to increase it's oxidation standards for the timing chain. The Grenadier's B58 doesn't appear to use as high a standard.

The more I read the more I seem to get confused and I see people now touting 0w40 oils. What gives? Wouldn't that be too thick? For the B58 in a heavier vehicle that will do towing and slower overlanding what oil should I be looking at? The Pennzoil Platinum Euro L and Quaker State Euro both look like the newer versions are LL04 certified and not LL01. So a bit confused on where to turn and I plan to do my oil changes at higher intervals (7,500miles) vs the 10k I currently do on my LR Discovery TD6. At least until I get a few UOA's rolling in. I've been running Rotella T6 in everything from my lawmower to my Discovery to my Yamaha 225 SHO outboard motor. I don't know if it'd be right for this application.

BMW has been using LL17Fe 0w20 in this engine in the US for a few years now. Think of it as LL04 but in a 20 grade. BMW also allows LL01FE for this engine. It's a slightly thinner LL01.

Do not use T6. It has no business in a turbo gasoline engine.

You can use LL01, LL04, LL01FE, LL12FE, LL17FE. Basically any 0w20 through 5w40 with a BMW approval. BMW stopped recommending LL01 around 2013. LL04 was for only diesels because the US hadn't moved to ULSG. With the B-series engines BMW went to low-saps 20 grades. This engine family contains polymer coated bearings and it is quiet complicated with it's multiple cooling circuits.

The BMW 0w20 stays in grade per the handful of UOA's seen around here.

I would probably run a LL04. M1 ESP 5w30 or Shell Euro L 5w30.

Nice ride. I'm jealous.

 

[kschachn]

In general no oil is too thick as long as the winter rating is appropriate for the expected starting conditions. Thicker oils do not cause damage but one that is too thin certainly can. And with those approvals you mention they both specify a minimum HT/HS of 3.5 so grade is largely irrelevant. Yes a 40-grade oil with the approval can be somewhat "thicker" but it makes no difference.

Buy the least expensive Longlife-01 or Longlife-04 oil you can find and use that. I buy the Pennzoil Platinum Euro L at Walmart for $26.44/5 quarts. The gasoline in the US is low-sulfur so the old prohibition against LL-04 is unwarranted.

 

[thastinger]

I would use a LL04 spec Euro oil with a 40W at the end.

 

[FlyingTexan]

In general no oil is too thick as long as the winter rating is appropriate for the expected starting conditions. Thicker oils do not cause damage but one that is too thin certainly can. And with those approvals you mention they both specify a minimum HT/HS of 3.5 so grade is largely irrelevant. Yes a 40-grade oil with the approval can be somewhat "thicker" but it makes no difference.

Buy the least expensive Longlife-01 or Longlife-04 oil you can find and use that. I buy the Pennzoil Platinum Euro L at Walmart for $26.44/5 quarts. The gasoline in the US is low-sulfur so the old prohibition against LL-04 is unwarranted.

Why wouldn't the 40 grade not make any difference? I appreciate all of your responses I'm just trying to learn here.

 

[AspektZA]

I'm using 5w-30 LL04 in my B58 with no complaints or discernible impact to fuel economy.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I would just use the 0w20 unless you are towing and what not with high oil temps, then I would use the 0w30 LL-01FE probably.

 

[edyvw]

Since 01/2017 US moved to Ultra Low Sulphur Gasoline (ULSG).
LL17FE is basically thin LL04.
In Wal Mart you have Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 which is LL04.
Numerous LL04 oils online.
You can also use LL01.

 

[kschachn]

Why wouldn't the 40 grade not make any difference? I appreciate all of your responses I'm just trying to learn here.

Only because the HT/HS is really the determinant factor. Yes a 40-grade may have higher than a 3.5 or it may not. Mobil 1 0W-40 for example lists that it has a 3.6 HT/HS which won't make any practical difference.

 

[kebabaluba]

How do you like that car? I saw and sat in one at a car show, i just love the airplane themed interior.

 

[edyvw]

Why wouldn't the 40 grade not make any difference? I appreciate all of your responses I'm just trying to learn here.

As mentioned, the real factor is HTHS.
LL01 and LL04 have a minimum HTHS requirement of 3.5.
To give you an example:
Mobil1 0W40 has an HTHS of 3.6.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 has also an HTHS of 3.6 (per some older PDS and oil has not changed since then).
The golden rule of lubrication: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary. So, forget grade, and focus on LL01 or LL04 approvals which guarantee robust HTHS. Most Euro oils in XW40 grade are on the thinner side since the grade is actually range.

 

[FlyingTexan]

How do you like that car? I saw and sat in one at a car show, i just love the airplane themed interior.

Well I'm a pilot so... yea lol. But really I just love the vehicle and it's "me". If I could have purchased my Discovery TD6 with rubber flooring and lack of monitors in the head rests I would have. But I have't taken delivery yet. I've test driven it many times. I was notified today it's on the truck to Houston so hopefully end of the week. But if it does come in I'm putting in some break-in mileage then doing an oil change.

 

[FlyingTexan]

As mentioned, the real factor is HTHS.
LL01 and LL04 have a minimum HTHS requirement of 3.5.
To give you an example:
Mobil1 0W40 has an HTHS of 3.6.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 has also an HTHS of 3.6 (per some older PDS and oil has not changed since then).
The golden rule of lubrication: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary. So, forget grade, and focus on LL01 or LL04 approvals which guarantee robust HTHS. Most Euro oils in XW40 grade are on the thinner side since the grade is actually range.

Thank you very much!

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Well I'm a pilot so... yea lol. But really I just love the vehicle and it's "me". If I could have purchased my Discovery TD6 with rubber flooring and lack of monitors in the head rests I would have. But I have't taken delivery yet. I've test driven it many times. I was notified today it's on the truck to Houston so hopefully end of the week. But if it does come in I'm putting in some break-in mileage then doing an oil change.

Photos are mandatory btw.

 

[FlyingTexan]

Photos are mandatory btw.

Promise! It's hopefully something I keep for a very long time.

 

[JavierH19]

Didn't even know these existed let alone sold here, made in France it seems. Real neat after looking at some interior pics, post some pics please!

 

[bigjl]

I want to start by saying I don't care what helps meet CAFE/EPA standards. I want what's best for my vehicle in my situation. I'm in the process of purchasing an Ineos Grenadier. It's 3 tons, can tow 7800lbs, going to be my daily driver and I want it to last for a very, very long time. They went with the B58 engine from BMW that's been slightly tuned for a lower HP and they state better torque range. This is what's in the manual states as far as oil. It's a bit vague. The manual seems to be written with Europe in mind so I'm trying to iron out what's best for me in my situation.


View attachment 191504


I live in Houston, Tx which is hot and humid in the summer. BMW I believe likes LL01 and LL04 specs but the LL04 spec I'm seeing isn't recommended for the USA due to the fuel sulfurs (that's the extent of my knowledge there). I've also read that the LL01 spec was revised in 2018 to increase it's oxidation standards for the timing chain. The Grenadier's B58 doesn't appear to use as high a standard.

The more I read the more I seem to get confused and I see people now touting 0w40 oils. What gives? Wouldn't that be too thick? For the B58 in a heavier vehicle that will do towing and slower overlanding what oil should I be looking at? The Pennzoil Platinum Euro L and Quaker State Euro both look like the newer versions are LL04 certified and not LL01. So a bit confused on where to turn and I plan to do my oil changes at higher intervals (7,500miles) vs the 10k I currently do on my LR Discovery TD6. At least until I get a few UOA's rolling in. I've been running Rotella T6 in everything from my lawmower to my Discovery to my Yamaha 225 SHO outboard motor. I don't know if it'd be right for this application.

B58 can use LL04, anything from 0w20 to 5w40

BMW Dealers in the Uk seem to use the 0w30 BMW branded LL04 in the B58 in my experience.

I will likely be putting 5w40 in when I do my interim oil and filter change.

I won’t be putting in 0w20

 

[bigjl]

I would just use the 0w20 unless you are towing and what not with high oil temps, then I would use the 0w30 LL-01FE probably.

Why?

The B58 is also specced for LL04 with one of the approved viscosities being 5w40

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Why?

The B58 is also specced for LL04 with one of the approved viscosities being 5w40

LL04 technically not allowed by BMW in North America at this point for gasoline engines. I agree with you they are fine to use, but I wouldn't do it while under warranty.