Oil for 2022 Gladiator with 3rd Gen 3.0L EcoDiesel

edyvw said:
Now, reread their email very carefully and language Valvoline and Liqui Moly use! Draw your own conclusions.
If it is necessary, do it several times.

Good they know, but they still choose to scam.
Click to expand...
If your euro engine recommends BMW 01 = This oil meets that specification
If your euro engine recommends BMW 04 = This oil meets that specification

Hence they state they Meet those two specifications

Specifications are usually backwards compatible but not forwards compatible so BMW 01 is not Forward compatible with BMW 04 but BMW 04 is Backward compatible to BMW 01. Many oil makers show older specifications along with newer specifications on the back of the jug.
 
fantastic said:
Hello fantastic,

We are aware of some of the things being said on that forum, most of them are half truths and misinformation. The last time we answered any issues, our customer service rep was swamped with all kinds of hearsay and baseless accusations. You see that one guy calling us scammers...I dont know why people say we have not tested the products for the specs we claim, it's absurd.

Few people have in-depth knowledge of the exact spec requirements and the system required to claim them. Also we do not have dedicated staff to monitor the forums for posts about us. We do react sometimes, when a customer like you brings up any info and we appreciate it.

Below is some info for you.

Regarding that post about BMW LL 01, the one you linked.

This is the data sheet from VALVOLINE XL-III 5W-30 Euro oil. They also recommend their 507.00 / 504.00 oil / BMW LL-04 for use in BMW LL-01. With respect to Valvoline's oil, the recommended applications are all high saps, older specs. Does that mean the new mid-saps or low saps oil will not work for them? No, it doesn't. Which is why Valvoline and Liqui Moly have them on there as do we. Some manufacturers will put those recommended specs, some will not.

==========================================================

View attachment 201020
THIS IS FROM LIQUI MOLY, their 507/504 oil.
Also has BMW LL 01 and many other "Recommended" specs.
==========================================================
View attachment 201021


Feel free to post these screenshots in reply to the guy making absurd claims regarding the BMW LL-01.

SPE COMPARISON BMW 04 vs BMW 01

As a spec comparison, see below. You can see that the BMW 01 and BMW 04 overlap, except the BMW 04 offers aftertreatment compatibility and much better protection vs soot thickening. So technically, the BMW 04 is superior.

As spec requirements, you can see the 01 has saps requirements that the 04 is already below the 1.6 threshold. While there are no limits on the Phosphorus, TBN and Sulfur on the BMW 01 oil, the BMW 04 has limits. So from every respect, the BMW 01 spec falls within the parameters already covered by BMW 04. HOWEVER - the OTHER way around is not possible. You cannot have a BMW 01 oil that meets BMW 04.

View attachment 201024


Pertaining to the use of tested specs.

For the Euro VX 5W-30 we use a custom modified additive package with an Infineium p6080a core. The modifications are done via custom boosters, so long as they do not affect the original core adpack spec qualifications. These boosters provide improved stability, durability and wear protection vs the "Standard" core ad-pack. Every modification was tested and approved by the original OEM certified additive manufacturer. Every booster build has to be tested for compatibility, reactivity and spec compliance. The exact booster packages or modifications to the formulation we cannot divulge, as they are proprietary. That being said, all of our products use approved / licensed / OEM certified core additive systems and thus are free to claim the specs.

You can find all the info on the core adpack for the Euro VX 5W-30 here.

https://www.infineum.com/p6080a/

In short, we do not put on the bottles or data sheets any specifications or applications that either the product is not fully tested against or that it qualifies for per tech data. Not only would that be illegal but it would be a breach of our customers' trust and that, we do not do.

I hope this makes sense, please feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Is this where you get called a raging Triax fanboy? It’s treatment that’s been doled out before against enthusiasts of other much more reputable brands. Of course their CR team is going to parrot what their marketing team says; if there was any real meat to their claims, they would have produced the test documents that showed their oil passed, not give you lip service about “how critical those people online who don’t know anything are”.
 
fantastic said:
If your euro engine recommends BMW 01 = This oil meets that specification
If your euro engine recommends BMW 04 = This oil meets that specification

Hence they state they Meet those two specifications

Specifications are usually backwards compatible but not forwards compatible so BMW 01 is not Forward compatible with BMW 04 but BMW 04 is Backward compatible to BMW 01. Many oil makers show older specifications along with newer specifications on the back of the jug.
Click to expand...
OMG, please! I actually wanted to write something longer, but I see that you are either having some serious insecurities in your purchasing decision-making process, so you are fishing for some confirmation bias, or Triax again sent someone to "argue" their case, not knowing that LL04 DOES NOT supersede LL01!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOTH approvals are CURRENT and updated last time in 2022!
Again, there is NO such thing as meeting specifications. LL01 and 04 are approvals! Meeting specification is a marketing term used by companies who don't have approvals but want to make money off of people who need that approval. I told you to check the verbiage in the Valvoline and Liqui Moly documents.
Which tells everything about know-how there. Stop arguing their case; you are actually doing them more damage than me calling them scammers.
 
edyvw said:
OMG, please! I actually wanted to write something longer, but I see that you are either having some serious insecurities in your purchasing decision-making process, so you are fishing for some confirmation bias, or Triax again sent someone to "argue" their case, not knowing that LL04 DOES NOT supersede LL01!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOTH approvals are CURRENT and updated last time in 2022! Which tell everything about know-how there. Stop arguing their case; you are actually doing them more damage than I am calling them scammers.
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I have no insecurities like you claim I have. There are two sides to the story & I would like to figure it out too so take YOUR insecurities elsewhere. LL04 comes with the benefit of protecting the emissions systems as the spider web shows. Like they've stated the add packs have been tested against their claims & approval vs meets in this scenario is simply who gets more money b/c they both meet/tested those specifications via infineum.

I'm not doing "more damage than you calling them scammers" because there are two sides to the story & anyone should be able to share their side just as you've shared yours so stop making it just about your position w/o being berated like you are to me!
 
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Out of curiousity I went again to check their "fixed" of, and they claim all those
fantastic said:
I have no insecurities like you claim I have for some strange reason. There are two sides to the story & I would like to figure it out too so take YOUR insecurities elsewhere. LL04 doesn't supersede LL01 but it basically does everything 01 does but with the benefit of protecting the emissions systems as the spider web shows. Like they've stated the add packs have been tested against their claims & approval vs meets in this scenario is simply who gets more money b/c they both meet/tested those specifications via infinium.

I'm not doing "more damage than you calling them scammers" because there are two sides to the story & anyone should be able to share their side just as you've shared yours so stop making it just about your position!
Click to expand...
I will give you one hint, and rest is on you.
LL01, 04, MB229.5,51,52, VW 504.00, 507.00, Porsche C30 all require minimum HTHS 3.5

Check HTHS:
TRIAX 5W30 Euro
 
fantastic said:
If your euro engine recommends BMW 01 = This oil meets that specification
If your euro engine recommends BMW 04 = This oil meets that specification
Click to expand...
That's not how it works.

The examples cited clearly show RECOMMENDED FOR (IE: it is NOT approved by BMW) from the other brands. Liqui-Moly goes as far as to cap their recommendation at 2018, which, IIRC, is when LL-01 was updated. They are free to do that, they could recommend gear lube for 229.5 if they wanted to, the onus would be on them to prove their product isn't at fault if it tossed a rod through the side of the block and Mercedes asked you why you were using that though.

A3/B4 and C3 take different approaches to formulation, which is why the additive packages sold for them, and the associated approvals, differ.

Some manufacturers are willing to be "generous" with their recommendations but are generally pretty clear as to which are actual approvals, and which are not. If it's not obvious as to what's what, or if there are even any real approvals at all, then that's problematic.

When Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 stopped meeting LL-01 when the spec was updated, they pulled the spec from the PDS. They didn't move it to "recommended for", and neither did Castrol, it was simply gone from both products. Later, when they were able to re-certify their product for the updated approval, it came back. That's the responsible approach.

Typically, you'll see majors like Mobil put "recommended for" on specs that are no longer current; that are obsolete and that the product can't be approved against. Since LL-01 is still a very current approval, that didn't apply.

One thing with LL-01 oils (A3/B4), which are full-SAPS, is that they have much higher TBN than C3 oils. If you are running a C3 in place of an A3/B4 in a location with fuel that isn't sufficiently low sulfur, and are going by the OLM, then you risk depleting the base of the oil and potentially causing considerable damage.

C3 (and LL-04) has aftertreatment compatibility (DPF, later GPF) as part of it, which is why it has SA capped, and thus, phosphorous. For engines that don't have this form of aftertreatment to protect, this is not a benefit.
 
edyvw said:
Out of curiousity I went again to check their "fixed" of, and they claim all those

I will give you one hint, and rest is on you.
LL01, 04, MB229.5,51,52, VW 504.00, 507.00, Porsche C30 all require minimum HTHS 3.5

Check HTHS:
TRIAX 5W30 Euro
Click to expand...
No different than calling an oil with 1.2% SA "mid-SAPS" lol.
 
Here is what infineum says that additive package is approved against:
Infineum P6080A is the only market general additive that meets:
- VW 504 00/507 00
- Daimler MB 229.52
- BMW LL-04

Here is the Tri-Ax PDS:
1706733807859.webp


Now, beyond HTHS being below the 3.5cP minimum for many of those specs, what other problems do you see?
 
OVERKILL said:
Here is what infineum says that additive package is approved against:
Infineum P6080A is the only market general additive that meets:
- VW 504 00/507 00
- Daimler MB 229.52
- BMW LL-04

Here is the Tri-Ax PDS:
View attachment 201030

Now, beyond HTHS being below the 3.5cP minimum for many of those specs, what other problems do you see?
Click to expand...
I don't see Infineum link.
Ah OK, I see what you saying.
But, where is MB229.52 then?
 
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edyvw said:
OMG, please! I actually wanted to write something longer, but I see that you are either having some serious insecurities in your purchasing decision-making process, so you are fishing for some confirmation bias, or Triax again sent someone to "argue" their case, not knowing that LL04 DOES NOT supersede LL01!!!!!!!!!!!!! BOTH approvals are CURRENT and updated last time in 2022!
Again, there is NO such thing as meeting specifications. LL01 and 04 are approvals! Meeting specification is a marketing term used by companies who don't have approvals but want to make money off of people who need that approval. I told you to check the verbiage in the Valvoline and Liqui Moly documents.
Which tells everything about know-how there. Stop arguing their case; you are actually doing them more damage than me calling them scammers.
Click to expand...
"BMW Longlife - 04 = denotes approval
BMW LL-04 means "meets the requirements of"

Just like MB 229.51 = "meets the requirements of" and "Mercedes Benz 229.51 or MB Approval 229.51" = denotes approval

Some OEMs have specific words for the approved spec, others do not, like VW / Audi, do not, neither does John Deere and many others.

Few people know this, so there is some excuse for the ignorance. Many companies, like Valvoline, use them interchangeably. Mobil does not use them interchangeably. To the customer, it doesn't matter which is which really as they both carry the same liability.

"Meets the requirements of" is not a marketing term as it denotes the applications and specifications for which that product is to be used, thus critical to its use and can lead to potential damage to the consumer. It implies legal liability for the claims made and you will be held liable for making them. Some OEMs like Ferrari or John Deere do not give approvals, but they have specs. Very clearly outlined specs. If it was a marketing term, you could put whatever you wanted, that's clearly not the case."
 
For those questioning the quality of the base oil.

"Yes, we use GTL for many engine oils. We also use PAO and Group IIIs in different combinations."
 
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fantastic said:
"BMW Longlife - 04 = denotes approval
BMW LL-04 means "meets the requirements of"

Just like MB 229.51 = "meets the requirements of" and "Mercedes Benz 229.51 or MB Approval 229.51" = denotes approval

Some OEMs have specific words for the approved spec, others do not, like VW / Audi, do not, neither does John Deere and many others.

Few people know this, so there is some excuse for the ignorance. Many companies, like Valvoline, use them interchangeably. Mobil does not use them interchangeably. To the customer, it doesn't matter which is which really as they both carry the same liability.

"Meets the requirements of" is not a marketing term as it denotes the applications and specifications for which that product is to be used, thus critical to its use and can lead to potential damage to the consumer. It implies legal liability for the claims made and you will be held liable for making them. Some OEMs like Ferrari or John Deere do not give approvals, but they have specs. Very clearly outlined specs. If it was a marketing term, you could put whatever you wanted, that's clearly not the case."
Click to expand...
🤡
 
fantastic said:
"BMW Longlife - 04 = denotes approval
BMW LL-04 means "meets the requirements of"

Just like MB 229.51 = "meets the requirements of" and "Mercedes Benz 229.51 or MB Approval 229.51" = denotes approval

Some OEMs have specific words for the approved spec, others do not, like VW / Audi, do not, neither does John Deere and many others.

Few people know this, so there is some excuse for the ignorance. Many companies, like Valvoline, use them interchangeably. Mobil does not use them interchangeably. To the customer, it doesn't matter which is which really as they both carry the same liability.

"Meets the requirements of" is not a marketing term as it denotes the applications and specifications for which that product is to be used, thus critical to its use and can lead to potential damage to the consumer. It implies legal liability for the claims made and you will be held liable for making them. Some OEMs like Ferrari or John Deere do not give approvals, but they have specs. Very clearly outlined specs. If it was a marketing term, you could put whatever you wanted, that's clearly not the case."
Click to expand...
Again, please stop! You do not understand this! Whether Triax has approval or not is really easy to check. I already pointed out to you that their oils do not meet the requirements to get approval.
It matters to customer! Stop spreading disinformation here. One is approved by manufacturer, others are not.
 
fantastic said:
"BMW Longlife - 04 = denotes approval
BMW LL-04 means "meets the requirements of"

Just like MB 229.51 = "meets the requirements of" and "Mercedes Benz 229.51 or MB Approval 229.51" = denotes approval

Some OEMs have specific words for the approved spec, others do not, like VW / Audi, do not, neither does John Deere and many others.

Few people know this, so there is some excuse for the ignorance. Many companies, like Valvoline, use them interchangeably. Mobil does not use them interchangeably. To the customer, it doesn't matter which is which really as they both carry the same liability.

"Meets the requirements of" is not a marketing term as it denotes the applications and specifications for which that product is to be used, thus critical to its use and can lead to potential damage to the consumer. It implies legal liability for the claims made and you will be held liable for making them. Some OEMs like Ferrari or John Deere do not give approvals, but they have specs. Very clearly outlined specs. If it was a marketing term, you could put whatever you wanted, that's clearly not the case."
Click to expand...
Send them an email:

Mercedes-Benz Operating Fluids

Publication platform for approved operating fluids from Mercedes-Benz
operatingfluids.mercedes-benz.com
 
edyvw said:
Again, please stop! You do not understand this! Whether Triax has approval or not is really easy to check. I already pointed out to you that their oils do not meet the requirements to get approval.
It matters to customer! Stop spreading disinformation here. One is approved by manufacturer, others are not.
Click to expand...
Where are they claiming an "Approval"? No disinformation from me. I've shared their rebuttal to your claims. I'm simply trying to understand both sides not just yours alone. Since when is "Meets" such a big deal? Meets & Approval both carry liability. They're not just some fly by night statements. There are prized oil companies here that do the same thing w/verbiage. Again, it's not that big of a deal since they both carry liability. Some of the posters here run plenty of un approved oils for thousands of miles.
 
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fantastic said:
Where are they claiming an "Approval"? No disinformation from me. I've shared their rebuttal to your claims. I'm simply trying to understand both sides not just yours alone. Since when is "Meets" such a big deal? Meets & Approval both carry liability. They're not just some fly by night statements.
Click to expand...
No they don’t. When ypu use “meets” and something happens to ypur engine, warranty can be declined!
 
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