Thanks Pablo, you'venow just opened up a BIG can of oils for me to decide from (oh boy!!!!)
More surfing....more reading...more FUN!!!!
More surfing....more reading...more FUN!!!!
HDEO vs PCMO, Moly oil??
- Thread starter tj5450
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A percentage of the phosphorous in motor oil additives will volatize when exposed to the heat of +200C operating temperatures.
Phosphorous volatility is a gray area. It seems to be more dependent on the type of phosphorous used in the ZDDP additive package, than on the volatility of the motor oil itself.
But that said, many members, here, are running M1 EP, Amsoil or Esso XD 0W-30 with the higher than GF-4/SM levels of phosphorous and don't anticipate any cat converter problems.
Phosphorous volatility is a gray area. It seems to be more dependent on the type of phosphorous used in the ZDDP additive package, than on the volatility of the motor oil itself.
But that said, many members, here, are running M1 EP, Amsoil or Esso XD 0W-30 with the higher than GF-4/SM levels of phosphorous and don't anticipate any cat converter problems.
The other key thing about the Phos. limit and cat poisoning is that the spec limits of 1000 then 800 are not magical. They really aren't even scientifically derived. They are just attempts to attenuate the P out. IOW - we can assume that an oil with 2000 ppm of P will poison the cat faster than one with 500 ppm. BUTT just because you have an oil of, say 1200, and out of "spec" - this does not mean your cat will be poisoned in 500,000 miles.
I have seen some oils have a content of Antimony. Is this the element that they are trying to phase in instead of the Phosphorous, or just a different approach to an already existing additive package? Also could more Boron take the place of the ZDDP additive component, or are they just trying to phase out this particular additive altogether just to gdet more money with more engine wear in a shorter amount of time?
TJ - I like the GM 5.3L & have one in my current 2001 Sierra 4X4 pickup. This engine cruises at a low 1500 rpm at 60 mph, yet has plenty of power for passing.
If you aren't familiar with the cold start knock & piston slap issues, I suggest a visit to the Pistonslap.com site.
While moly may somewhat help minimize the effects of one of these noise issues, it won't cure it. Running high moly GF-4 oils, Havoline & Valvo Maxlife, in my 99 Silverado with cold start knock, generated no real difference.
By all means, get started with the Auto-Rx treatment to insure the ring packs are free.
And check the PCV valve - my truck still had the original and it had fudgy brown deposits after 4 years & 39K miles, when I became the owner!
If you aren't familiar with the cold start knock & piston slap issues, I suggest a visit to the Pistonslap.com site.
While moly may somewhat help minimize the effects of one of these noise issues, it won't cure it. Running high moly GF-4 oils, Havoline & Valvo Maxlife, in my 99 Silverado with cold start knock, generated no real difference.
By all means, get started with the Auto-Rx treatment to insure the ring packs are free.
And check the PCV valve - my truck still had the original and it had fudgy brown deposits after 4 years & 39K miles, when I became the owner!
Winston,
I have used M1 and Castrol Syntech, both 5w30, since the 1500 mile breakin change. I also used those orange things until I started reading the BITOG. (BTW - Can anyone use 3 new PH8A's?)
I have not tried the GC, but have seen some on the shelf and don't know how to ID if it is green or gold. Clue me in on how to figure out what I am looking at and I'll give it a try.
I really have to reiterate that the S2K really 'sounds' slick. I even noticed a difference in how the starter turns the engine over. Will see if I am hearing things or not when I do a UOA.
Thanks to all for your reponses. I continue to learn a lot.
I have used M1 and Castrol Syntech, both 5w30, since the 1500 mile breakin change. I also used those orange things until I started reading the BITOG. (BTW - Can anyone use 3 new PH8A's?)
I have not tried the GC, but have seen some on the shelf and don't know how to ID if it is green or gold. Clue me in on how to figure out what I am looking at and I'll give it a try.
I really have to reiterate that the S2K really 'sounds' slick. I even noticed a difference in how the starter turns the engine over. Will see if I am hearing things or not when I do a UOA.
Thanks to all for your reponses. I continue to learn a lot.
tj5450 Does you SUV have the Oil Life Monitor? Also try using an AC Delco filter it seems to help with a lot of this GM V8's and start up noise. I am very hesitant about using an another filter after some of pervious experances.
So bruce381, would a tri-blend of Groups III, IV, and V be a very well rounded and protection plenty lubricant, say in the 5w30 - 15w40 viscosity range? Maybe toss in the Boron, Magnesium, Calcium, easy on the ZDDP, and, dare I say it, a little Moly for good measure?
Of course lets not forget the PPD's, Anti-Foaming stuff, and Anti-Oxidants (maybe a could come up with a killer vitamin!!!
)
Anyway, how's this sound?
Of course lets not forget the PPD's, Anti-Foaming stuff, and Anti-Oxidants (maybe a could come up with a killer vitamin!!!
Anyway, how's this sound?
Thats me talking since I'm talking about mostly components that only blenders buy and since I make my own oils that would be my starting point.
bruce
bruce
salesrep, which of the two are better/indifferent/necessary for a good additive package?
Don't get me wrong I like and use Moly and Boron additives my feeling is that both Moly and Boron have great FM and anti scuff properties but I think the boron maybe better with copper alloys.
There are so many versions now out that any problem areas with each additve will be improved on I'm sure.
Boron has a different metal reaction than moly and will see much more use in all types of lubes.
Depending what type Boron a TBN boost is also a bonus.
AO there are better materials avalible (for 100% AO performance) but I like haveing a multi functional additve to me it is a plus. I would look at them for AO performance in the same range as ZDDP.
bruce
There are so many versions now out that any problem areas with each additve will be improved on I'm sure.
Boron has a different metal reaction than moly and will see much more use in all types of lubes.
Depending what type Boron a TBN boost is also a bonus.
AO there are better materials avalible (for 100% AO performance) but I like haveing a multi functional additve to me it is a plus. I would look at them for AO performance in the same range as ZDDP.
bruce
Can you use both in the same blend for maximum effect bruce381?
Like re inventing the wheel why not use M1 5/30 and cover all the bases?quote:
Originally posted by Dad2leia:
So bruce381, would a tri-blend of Groups III, IV, and V be a very well rounded and protection plenty lubricant, say in the 5w30 - 15w40 viscosity range? Maybe toss in the Boron, Magnesium, Calcium, easy on the ZDDP, and, dare I say it, a little Moly for good measure?
Of course lets not forget the PPD's, Anti-Foaming stuff, and Anti-Oxidants (maybe a could come up with a killer vitamin!!!)
Anyway, how's this sound?
you can blend anything you want but in the real world you will never tell the difference IMHO.
bruce
Why does everyone point to that darn Mobil 1 stuff everytime I ask about a "better mousetrap"?
Is it REALLY that good, or can't even perfection be improved upon...
Is it REALLY that good, or can't even perfection be improved upon...
Redline is one of the only specialty blenders that really knows what he is doing.
I'd use his oil as a baseline and I do not think you could do better.
He thinks ouside the box and has a lot of what you ask in his oils now just have to match up to what you want low wear race oil or long drain low wear street oil he has them just get right one.
bruce
I'd use his oil as a baseline and I do not think you could do better.
He thinks ouside the box and has a lot of what you ask in his oils now just have to match up to what you want low wear race oil or long drain low wear street oil he has them just get right one.
bruce
Been there, have done that, was very happy. I just wanted a change (sound like my wife....sheeesh!!!)
bruce381, check out my new topic to see the extent of my sheer madness.
bruce381, check out my new topic to see the extent of my sheer madness.
To feed your addiction PM email me I'll send you some ZDDP,CA, polymer/ester and some other good FM's you can dump in and see what if any effect.
And that is the problem is how to quantify any improvement or lack off.
bruce
"The other key thing about the Phos. limit and cat poisoning is that the spec limits of 1000 then 800 are not magical. They really aren't even scientifically derived. They are just attempts to attenuate the P out. IOW - we can assume that an oil with 2000 ppm of P will poison the cat faster than one with 500 ppm. BUTT just because you have an oil of, say 1200, and out of "spec" - this does not mean your cat will be poisoned in 500,000 miles."
The cat on our 93 Taurus was done in by oil, but it was clogged by oil blowing past the sticking rings, not by the P in the HDEO blend that I was using. I'm guessing that regular use of an HDEO would have at least delayed the ring sticking compared to the 'typical' PCMOs that I used over the years, and something like AutoRx may have prevented it. The car currently has over 193k miles on it, and it's on a diet of M1 T&S right now.
The cat on our 93 Taurus was done in by oil, but it was clogged by oil blowing past the sticking rings, not by the P in the HDEO blend that I was using. I'm guessing that regular use of an HDEO would have at least delayed the ring sticking compared to the 'typical' PCMOs that I used over the years, and something like AutoRx may have prevented it. The car currently has over 193k miles on it, and it's on a diet of M1 T&S right now.
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