HDEO vs PCMO, Moly oil??

[tj5450]

I am new to post, but have lurked for sometime here. I have always been a die hard believer in 3k OCI's mostly using 5w30 M1 and Castrol Syntech depending on which was on sale at Wallyworld.

A few months ago, the little woman & I decided to take our 2002 Yukon XL from NC to CA and back. (It had ~34k on it at the time.) Well, I knew (from my college education) that this trip would be about 6k miles, plus or minus a bit. Being a religious (my wife says anal) 3k OCI person and liking to do my own work, I was "forced" to find a way to confidently run my "new" vehicle double my traditional OCI. My research brought me to AMSOIL and BITOG for EOCI confidence.


At my last oil change, I installed AMSOIL S2000 0w30 in both my 5.3l 2002 Yukon XL, 43k miles now and my 1996 Ranger 4.0l, 103k miles now (with AMSOIL BMK-13 dual bypass). My first impression is that this is really slick stuff! Both vehicles are noticeably running better and smoother than ever. (You guys who bash AMSOIL out there, if you have something better, let me know and I'm on it!)

The Yukon is about due for an oil change (OLS light came on at ~7500, no bypass on this one). I changed the filter (removed AMSOIL, installed a Baldwin), topped off about 1000 miles ago. I will pull a sample this weekend for UOA to determine status.

So, I am getting ready to replenish my stash of goodies for the big day and this brings me to my questions:

1) In several threads I see comments about HDEO and PCMO. Can you guys comment on the differences? I am trying to decide between S2000 0w30 (a PCMO), ASL 5w30 (a PCMO but cheaper) and S3000 5w30 (a HDEO).

2) I am also considering something with moly in it to cure a 'tick' and seek recommendations. The Yukon has had a "tick" almost since new. The 'stealer' claimed it to be carbon. I have used a cleaner, B-12 Chemtool, at every OCI early in the life of this vehicle and now add some MMO every couple of fillups. Will a moly oil cure something like this?

3) I also am considering using Auto-Rx for the last 1000 miles of this OCI, again for the 'tick' problem. Is there a good moly dino oil out there for the rinse phase? Would the moly bind adequately in the presence of ARx?

Thanks to all of you folks for feeding my long time need! BTW, my wife thinks we are all nuts!

 

[Pablo]

quote:

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I knew (from my college education) that this trip would be about 6k miles

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You'll fit right in.

HDEO's have different and higher amounts of detergents and dispersants than PCMO. I cannot really recommend these for new gas vehicles in general - but the S3K is a good oil, and I doubt you would burn enough to pollute your cat (the main fear with HDEO in gassers)

In a nutshell:

a) The ASL will do fine. Doesn't sound like you are doing super long OCI's. UOA's are the way to go.

b) I doubt moly will cure a "tick". Since new?

c) AutoRx has cured some "ticks". Not sure why you would need a moly oil for the rinse phase???

 

[Pablo]

I left out that many HDEO's are dual rated for use in gas engines as well. Typically used for fleets of mixed vehicles.

 

[tj5450]

Thanks, Pablo.

I am very interested in longer OCI's, but am a bit squeamish at this point. The Yukon has that tiny filter with no bypass valve based on what Baldwin rep said. I thought 10k would be a max for now until I read the UOA.

I was asking about moly based on what I had read here about the coating and lubricating properties of it. I thought perhaps it would be the Silver Bullet and the reason I was asking about the rinse phase was because I would be going back to the 'slick' stuff after the rinse phase.

 

[Dad2leia]

Hey Pablo, I have a side question regarding the HDEO vs PCMO oils today. If your car doesn't really consume any detectable oil, couldn't you get away with the HDEO in the proper viscosity range for your vehicle, any not have a problem at all with the emission controls?

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

quote:

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Originally posted by tj5450:
Thanks, Pablo.

I am very interested in longer OCI's, but am a bit squeamish at this point. The Yukon has that tiny filter with no bypass valve based on what Baldwin rep said. I thought 10k would be a max for now until I read the UOA.

I was asking about moly based on what I had read here about the coating and lubricating properties of it. I thought perhaps it would be the Silver Bullet and the reason I was asking about the rinse phase was because I would be going back to the 'slick' stuff after the rinse phase.

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If I remember correctly, most GM engines have the bypass valve in the block.

The local Amsoil dealer out here has the customers running 25K or 1 year with an Amsoil filter swap at 12.5K or 6 months.

To my suprise no problems.

Of course the owners I talk to trade their vehicles in fairly often.

I would not feel comfortable with that OCI, but I could sure see running the S2K S3K Amsoil at 10K to 12.5K or 1 year with a filter swap midway...as long as I ran a UOA or two.

[ September 20, 2005, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Thatwouldbegreat ]

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dad2leia:
I have seen some oils have a content of Antimony. Is this the element that they are trying to phase in instead of the Phosphorous, or just a different approach to an already existing additive package? Also could more Boron take the place of the ZDDP additive component, or are they just trying to phase out this particular additive altogether just to gdet more money with more engine wear in a shorter amount of time?

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Antimony is old news was to replace ZDDP for issues with the cat but it also contains sulfur and my not be the answer.

PCMO vs HDEO the HDEO will last longer and keep engines cleaner due to higher TBN and detergent dispersant package.

I like a good CI-4/SG,SL oil of any grade higher than a 20wt.

That to me is the best you can get put it in a GPIII or PAO base and that is the bomb oh then add 20% of the GC green ester/polymer/pao.
bruce

 

[Dad2leia]

bruce381, you're not totally sold on full synthetic oils are you? You always seem to mention Group III basestock, that is why I ask this. Also, what is your take on Moly vs Boron as additives.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Aren't the Berryman's treatments scouring off the moly or other semi-permanet AW substances anyway?

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dad2leia:
bruce381, you're not totally sold on full synthetic oils are you? You always seem to mention Group III basestock, that is why I ask this. Also, what is your take on Moly vs Boron as additives.

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Moly old stuff boron new stuff same results.
FM not much AO effect if at all.

I like Syns and PAO. I like them all I'm a happy guy. But since you asked PAO and GPIII are pretty close other than PP.

No mater what everyone says any Dino SL grade will run 5K.
Syn base is more of a temprature and volitility issue.
You can use a dino oil of X vis grade and change out at 4-5K and will have the same results with a syn that is run to 8-10K.

Only issue I see is how much do you want to pay and how offten do you want to change.

Me I use whatever is in the plant at any given time over 20wt (20wt equals bad) and run about a 15-20k drain and filter change I have 195K on bronco now with out ever having valve cover off.
Bruce

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
bruce - I have to agree with your "philopsophy";
"Only issue I see is how much do you want to pay and how offten do you want to change."

I have used this same basic philopsophy for several decades. Both personally and in my Road Transport Consultancy activities. As long as you use a suitably specified product for the intended application it really is simply an economics issue

I believe that the latest Group 3 "hydro-cracked" products will perform at ever increasing cost benefit levels! This is the case with HDEOs (and has been for nearly a decade) and the lastest products are just so much better than ever before
And so much more cost effective too!

With many engines in my world covering up to two million kilometers, I have never had one "wear out"! Well for the last nearly three decades or so at least!
Nor have I had any that have had a lubricant related "issue" where Approved oils have been used from new and where the prescribed OCIs and service items have been undertaken in a timely manner

And Bruce you said this too;
"Syn base is more of a temprature and volitility issue"

That is what I accepted many years ago as well in all of its widest context

I also strongly believe that conclusive evidence confirming a better wear performance from one conforming Brand (specification & application) to another Brand is largely non-existent

Doug

 

[Big O Dave]

Bruce, UR the king of 'net abbreviated verbage. My hat's off to you!

 

[bruce381]

We think alike and I think are well grounded in what works and what is just a (wet dream).
the best vis grade for me is 15/40 you Doug?
bruce

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by Big O Dave:

Bruce, UR the king of 'net abbreviated verbage. My hat's off to you!

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Big O Dave is that good I really do not know I just have 33 years at this and say it as it is like it or not.
bruce

 

[Big O Dave]

quote:

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Originally posted by bruce381:

FM not much AO effect if at all.

I like Syns and PAO. I like them all I'm a happy guy. But since you asked PAO and GPIII are pretty close other than PP.

Bruce

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I know what FM is... friction modifier. I'm not sure what an "AO effect" is, and unless PP means Pennzoil Platinum, I'm clueless on that, too. I'm just too new at this!

EDIT: I just figured out PP - it's Pour Point, right?

 

[Pablo]

AO = anti oxidant

I agree to a point - some brand oils do work better in some engines.

 

[bruce381]

AO is anti oxidant
FM is friction modifier
PP is pour point

think this is all listed in the forum home page under "definitions"??? some one can point you to the right place.

bruce

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
bruce - yes I have used 15w-40 for about as long as it has been around. For some decades!!!

I often recommend 15w-40 HDEOs on here when it suits the application - but of course the dissenters are many!

I only use Delvac 1 5w-40 (since 1997) because it has performed so well (cost effectively) in my applications(s)and I do not want an expanded inventory across engine families!

I recently changed some engines to a 15w-40 HDEO
- purely for cost effectiveness and as they are serviced at a distant and remote location!

Doug

 

[Winston]

Tj,
Based on you initial post, you surely have found your home here. I always like to ask oil anal people, why are you so anal? Do you plan on keeping your car forever or is it just a desire to make sure the oil is good in your engine.

One quick recommendation, you should try GC with a Pure One filter to cure your tick. Many people say GC makes their engines run quieter, and many people have reported additional quietness with the Pure One oil filter. Some one will chime in and say Pure Ones are restrictive, but there is no evidence to substantiate that.

quote:

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From Bruce, That to me is the best you can get put it in a GPIII or PAO base and that is the bomb oh then add 20% of the GC green ester/polymer/pao.

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Bruce, I am surprised that you are recommending a "home blend". So many people here say dont mess with the big companies blends.

 

[Pablo]

Dad - people do it ALL the time with no issues.