First gun recommendations...

[ArrestMeRedZ]

I was buying 9mm ball in bulk (500 round boxes of Winchester 115 grain) for 17 cents a round. .223 55 grain and 62 grain penetrator was around 20 cents a round if I remember correctly. .45 ball was around 25 cents a round. All brass case, US manufacturer, factory new ammo. Also bought Estate (foreign)12 gauge buckshot cheap, but I forgot the price and won't risk getting it wrong.

I thought the price was unreasonably cheap so I stocked up. Picked up a Colt Detective Special (.38 Special) since then, but with little ammo on hand (I won't pay current prices) it stays in the safe.

 

[Astro14]

As someone who has recently gotten interested in getting my CC permit (which takes forever in NY and still precludes carrying in NYC....where you are more likely to need it). I am curious as to what ammo cost before the 'shortages'?

I used to pay about 16 cents/round for 9mm brass range ammo. 50-55 cents/round for Speer Gold Dot or Federal HST 9mm defensive ammo.

.28/round for 10mm and .38 super range ammo.

.32/round for mil spec 5.56

.50/round for mil spec 7.62

.74/round for .30-06 (Garand load)

Most ammo hit nearly four times that a year ago.

It’s back down to about double that, which is a welcome trend, but still expensive.

Imagine gasoline quadrupling in price. You still wouldn’t be happy when it went back down to “only“ double the price, but it would be an improvement.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

I was off on my .223 [sic] number. I paid closer to Astro's 5.56 number, a bit more if on stripper clips in ammo cans.

 

[Astro14]

I used to buy a case at a time from these guys:

SGAmmo.com | In Stock Bulk Ammo For Sale

SGAmmo bulk ammo for sale. Largest selection online for in stock cheap ammunition!

www.sgammo.com

Still great folks, and still my recommendation for ammo purchasing, but they represent the market and the market is still very high. Nowhere near ammo of two years ago.

 

[wpod]

A full size pistol or revolver is nicer to shoot than a compact . But here is the bad part about guns. Most people end up owning more that one.

 

[football]

What do you recommend for a new gun owner?

Guns are tools. Different tools are needed for different jobs. What are you attempting to accomplish?

You wouldn't use a snub nose revolver to go deer hunting. You wouldn't use a deer rifle as a conceal carry weapon.

Conceal carry
1) Glock 42/43/26
2) Ruger LCP / LCP Max
3) Snub nose revolver
4) Sig P365 or Springfield Hellcat 9mm
5) Smith Shield

Home Defense primary
1) Home defense should almost always be primary supported with a long gun.
2) EVERY home defense weapon that is deployed for home defense should absolutely positively have a weapon light mounted to it if possible. Most modern firearms have a way to mount a weapon light.
3) A semi automatic rifle or high quality (read expensive) semi-automatic shotgun is ideal here. Not a fan of pump shotguns for novices, as they are experts weapons and require a large amount of training to become proficient.
4) I really like pistol caliber carbines like the Ruger PC carbine, Beretta CX4 storm carbine, or CZ Scorpion carbine and recommend them to my students.
5) The AR15 (or similar magazine fed carbine in an intermediate cartridge) is probably the best home defense weapon that money can buy. It has a lot of firepower, with a lot of noise, with reduced penetration risk to innocent bystanders. If you wanted the BEST home defense weapon, you'd be looking at an AR15 style rifle.

Home Defense backup
1) Full size pistol, 9mm, with a large capacity magazine. Like a Glock 17, or Sig P320 or similar modern polymer pistol. Full size. No need for compact for home defense.
1a) If you live in a non free state with ten round limits, then get a 45ACP pistol with a ten round magazine. I really like the Smith M&P45.
2) Should have a rail on the bottom with a rail mounted light.

As it relates to home defense, the pistol is a backup weapon. It is not a primary weapon. If I hear glass breaking down stairs and voices, I would not grab a Glock 17. I would grab a long gun.

Me personally, I have made the case that a "gun owner" that uses guns for defensive purposes, would own at least 3 guns. A smallish carry gun, a full size service size pistol, and a long gun. If you hunt, add in a few more for hunting purposes. If you are just starting out, and need to start "somewhere", I would start with a carry pistol. Its the most useful and will get the most use, assuming you conceal carry. Then as money allows, get a long gun for home defense, and then a full size pistol.

 

[nomas]

I have plenty of long guns but I don't use any of them for primary home defense . I personally prefer the mobility that a handgun and hand held light gives me . No doubt many people will take exception to that strategy and I'm not interested in debating it . Different strokes and all of that ..

 

[ATex7239]

Home Defense primary
1) Home defense should almost always be primary supported with a long gun.
5) The AR15 (or similar magazine fed carbine in an intermediate cartridge) is probably the best home defense weapon that money can buy. It has a lot of firepower, with a lot of noise, with reduced penetration risk to innocent bystanders. If you wanted the BEST home defense weapon, you'd be looking at an AR15 style rifle.
As it relates to home defense, the pistol is a backup weapon. It is not a primary weapon. If I hear glass breaking down stairs and voices, I would not grab a Glock 17. I would grab a long gun.

I somewhat disagree. Yes a long is better in many, many respects specifically related to outright capabilities. However it does have trade offs with the gains. Moving indoors and the long term use of the off hand being the biggest trade offs. You lose the ability to keep the off hand free to say open doors and windows, carry a small child, call the police. etc. From a 100% capabilities and raw horsepower perspective I’d go with a AR or Shotgun hands down. No question. That said, I chose the pistol because of those real world trade offs. I’d rather gain the ability to move freely in tight spaces and carry my child without the hindrance knowing that I lose the long guns capabilities. I’m more concerned about the ability to move around my house and tend my kids than I am about terminal ballistics, capacity, etc. “The BEST” is nuanced.

 

[WeyounDS9]

Recent first gun purchase thread/comments sparked my interest... What do you recommend for a new gun owner?

I lean toward recommending a full or compact 9mm pistol. Nothing against revolvers or shotguns though. I just find people become comfortable with pistols faster and are less intimidated by the recoil. Teaching someone how operate a semi auto isn’t difficult either. Most folks pick it up very quickly.

This isn’t intended to be a debate about the effectiveness of one caliber vs another or this brand vs that brand.

I send a lot of time teaching newbies.

So I have to ask what do you want the fire arm for?

- Nightstand gun? 357 magnum Revolver such as GP100 of S&W model 66 or Colt King Cobra, its so simple when woken up and groggy you will always be able to operate it properly. Preferably loaded with 38 special hollow point, ( 357 Magnum shot in doors w/o hearing protection cna cause deafness)
- A Trail gun that doubles for game and self defense? Same answer as above.
- A carry piece for when you are out and about? Perhaps in dangerous areas? Any modern 9mm magazine fed compact (but not subcompact) pistol . Examples: Smith and Wesson M&P 9C, Taurus G3C (or g2C or G2 the previous models) (these have or can be had with external safeties).Or Glock 19 or smaller IF you feel brave enough to go w/o external safety. I don't, despite 25 years Army as NCO and Officer, part time instructor etc etc. etc. Why? because as someone w/o a Peace officer's badge and not being deployed to "the Stan", an accidental discharge can be a CRIME in some jurisdictions. The best way to never have one is to add an extra layer of safety. So I carry a firearm with external safety in a positive retention holster that covers the trigger.
- Open carry piece around your ranch or retreat or post-apoc? A full size pistol like Glock 9mm, SmithWesson M+P 9 2.0 full size, Taurus G3 Sig Sauer P320, and the like.
- Defend your family weapon when MS13 comes knocking or a mob decides to "liberate" your neighborhood from property house and life? Just about any serviceable AR15 (such as Delton) with a servicable red dot optic (such as Bushnell TRS25). Add a Botach "shooters bag" to hold up to 8 Mags. Higher end setups always welcome (such as higher end AR with EOtech or Aimpoint Optic and a proper milsurp rig)

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Imagine gasoline quadrupling in price. You still wouldn’t be happy when it went back down to “only“ double the price, but it would be an improvement.

Perfectly said.

 

[football]

I somewhat disagree. Yes a long is better in many, many respects specifically related to outright capabilities. However it does have trade offs with the gains. Moving indoors and the long term use of the off hand being the biggest trade offs. You lose the ability to keep the off hand free to say open doors and windows, carry a small child, call the police. etc. From a 100% capabilities and raw horsepower perspective I’d go with a AR or Shotgun hands down. No question. That said, I chose the pistol because of those real world trade offs. I’d rather gain the ability to move freely in tight spaces and carry my child without the hindrance knowing that I lose the long guns capabilities. I’m more concerned about the ability to move around my house and tend my kids than I am about terminal ballistics, capacity, etc. “The BEST” is nuanced.

I recommend the long gun as the ideal home defense weapon for a multitude of reasons.

The plain and simple reality is that they are far more accurate and far more reliable, in most cases, than a pistol, in most scenarios. Yes you do get better ballistics, but that is far down the list of the why I recommend them.

I have spent years on gun ranges all over this country. Have you seen the average shooter? MOST people are not gun people. Their gun skills are terrible. Your average shooter cant hold a semi automatic pistol properly. The average shooter is at serious risk of limp wristing or failures, especially under duress. The long gun does not suffer from limp wrist failures. A quality semi auto long gun is statistically more reliable, in stressful scenarios.

Hits on target. Using past statists, the average trained cop shoots 10 rounds in real life with a pistol, and only hits the bad guy twice. They miss 80% of the shots they fire, from pistols. We can reasonably assume that the average civilian will have a very similar hit ratio, using a pistol. For every ten shots fired, only expect two hits. Bad guys dont hold still. They move. And they dodge and weave when bullets are flying. They are hard to hit. You can hit a paper target all the time at the gun range, but a moving bad guy, in the dark? Its easy to miss, even from a few feet away.

When cops use long guns, they hit their target, 93-95% of the time. They hit their target more than 9 times out of every 10 shots fired, when using a long gun. Likewise, we can expect the civilian shooter to similarly hit their target much more often, when using a long gun vs a pistol.

Most people with kids probably have two parents at home. Most. Not all. But most.

I do a drill where I attach balloons to an RC car, and ask the student to shoot the balloon with a pistol. Even at 10 feet, a moving balloon is often impossible to shoot for most people. Put a pistol caliber carbine in their hand and they can now get 90% hit ratio. Its impressive to see the difference...

Many homes with children have two parents (generally speaking). In that scenario, the long gun protects the family, the other parent can gather kids and call 911. I've moved around many a house/building armed with an AR15 and its not an impossible task to move and open doors. Its just not a problem worth mentioning, honestly.

Everyone has their opinions on this topic, based on their real word experiences. You may have differing life experiences that tell you that a pistol is fine for primary home defense. I will always use a long gun as primary.

The pistol has its place. Its a compromise.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Ammo at only double the price instead of 4 times the price compared to 2-3 years ago will become the new "normal". Gas prices will never be $1.98/gal again, and a box of 50 9mm will never be 8.99 a box again.

 

[ollie]

You claimed 9mm for $18-$19 a box.

The link shows it for $32 a box. In stock.

Much more in line with current prices.

Listing ammo with a price of $20/box, with none in stock, is not the same as selling it for that price.

There are lots of Mom & Pop gun shops that have old prices on their websites, since that ammo sold out two years ago at that price. They simply haven’t updated.

Here‘s a local store listing .38 for the price you’ve claimed.

38 Special Ammo For Sale | Cheap Bulk 38 Special Ammo

.38 Special ammo or .38 SPL ammo for sale at The Armory! Always cheap 38 Special ammo in stock in boxes or bulk 38 SPL cases ready to ship. Buy your .38 SPC ammo today the Armory. Also see 9x29.5mmR

www.the-armory.com

But I’ve walked in their store. That ammo hasn’t been in stock in two years. So, listing a price on a website, when it’s not being sold at that price, is the same as finding $1.89 unleaded signs on a closed gas station.

It‘s nostalgia- not reality.

Current prices are vastly different from 2020.

You believe what you will. I can't understand why you are so skeptical so as to make an attempt to refute someone trying to help out fellow members with a true bargain.

I go to both shops listed regularly and website prices are current and accurate. Albeit in stock ammo changes like any other shop. I am by no means a regular at the ranges but do know the market and keep up with the prices.

 

[Creekside]

Depends on what they want it for. A Ruger 1022 is super accurate and easy to shoot right out of the box. That would be my pick for a basic entry level rifle for someone totally new.

 

[ollie]

Ammo at only double the price instead of 4 times the price compared to 2-3 years ago will become the new "normal". Gas prices will never be $1.98/gal again, and a box of 50 9mm will never be 8.99 a box again.

Heck I don't remember ever seeing 9mm ammo for under 10 bucks a box of 50.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Heck I don't remember ever seeing 9mm ammo for under 10 bucks a box of 50.

I just looked at my records. Bought 50 round boxes of CCI "Blazer", 9 mm, 115 grain, FMJ, brass cases for $8.99 a box on sale (17.98 cents per round). That was on 1/24/2020. Bought 100 round box of Remington UMC "Value Pack", 9 mm, 115 grain, FMJ for $18.84/box (18.84 cents per round) on 9/5/2019.

 

[ollie]

Depends on what they want it for. A Ruger 1022 is super accurate and easy to shoot right out of the box. That would be my pick for a basic entry level rifle for someone totally new.

My starter gun was a this really cool 22 that folded up in the butt of the gun. I notched a V in the pin hole sight and practiced shooting jack rabbits in the desert. I still think it's buried somewhere in my parents house.

 

[ollie]

I just looked at my records. Bought 50 round boxes of CCI "Blazer", 9 mm, 115 grain, FMJ, brass cases for $8.99 a box on sale (17.98 cents per round). That was on 1/24/2020.

That's a darn good price. Now if only I could get some 45/70 ammo for that price!! LOL

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

I recently came across an 'old' receipt from 2019 from TargetSportsUSA for a 1000 round case of boxed 9mm Blazer Brass for $169.

I/we won't ever see prices like that again but it was nice while it lasted!

 

[Astro14]

You believe what you will. I can't understand why you are so skeptical so as to make an attempt to refute someone trying to help out fellow members with a true bargain.

I go to both shops listed regularly and website prices are current and accurate. Albeit in stock ammo changes like any other shop. I am by no means a regular at the ranges but do know the market and keep up with the prices.

Why am I skeptical?

Because I recognize that a web listing is not the same as an actual price.

I showed you a similar web listing, for ammo available locally.

Except that it isn’t available. It‘s an outdated web listing.

Now, since you claimed $20/box of 50 for .38 special.

In California.

I would be willing to believe you if you showed a receipt.

Otherwise, making that claim is not helping fellow members.