9mm is easier to shoot, cheaper to shoot, and you can carry more in a smaller frame. Modern defensive 9mm makes a hole like .45
Where's the downside?
Where's the downside?
"Experts" choose 9mm over .45 ACP? Really?
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If I were forced to choose one handgun with which to defend myself, my choice would be which ever one I felt the most comfortable shooting and had the most confidence in that I could hit what I was aiming at, regardless of caliber.
I used to have a 1911 style .45 that I coukd shoot with very good accuracy and little effort. I also used to have a Ruger P90 .45 that seemed to take all my concentration just to hit the target half the time.
Every gun is different for me, so no matter the caliber, i'll take the one Im most likely use successfully in any given scenario over all other options.
I used to have a 1911 style .45 that I coukd shoot with very good accuracy and little effort. I also used to have a Ruger P90 .45 that seemed to take all my concentration just to hit the target half the time.
Every gun is different for me, so no matter the caliber, i'll take the one Im most likely use successfully in any given scenario over all other options.
Nuke probably has the best answer. Whatever one can comfortably to the job with.
I use all mentioned calibers except a 40. Sig 220 is usually my companion but sometimes its TDB. Run some 115 at a high rate of speed for closer confined areas and some 230HP +P for other. Practice is your best friend to get muscle memory. When I used to compete 400 plus rounds a week thru large bore and more than that with 22. Its like driving. You don't get good or comfortable with one trip around the block.
I use all mentioned calibers except a 40. Sig 220 is usually my companion but sometimes its TDB. Run some 115 at a high rate of speed for closer confined areas and some 230HP +P for other. Practice is your best friend to get muscle memory. When I used to compete 400 plus rounds a week thru large bore and more than that with 22. Its like driving. You don't get good or comfortable with one trip around the block.
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Originally Posted By: derweed
I think the question should not be which you should shoot, it should be which would you rather be shot with. The answer is neither and that ends the debate. They both do the job
A shovel and a spoon will both dig a hole, but I would rather use a shovel.
Actually, I would rather use a backhoe, but that is a whole other topic......
I think the question should not be which you should shoot, it should be which would you rather be shot with. The answer is neither and that ends the debate. They both do the job
A shovel and a spoon will both dig a hole, but I would rather use a shovel.
Actually, I would rather use a backhoe, but that is a whole other topic......
Originally Posted By: Finn
Originally Posted By: E150GT
I believe shot placement is very important no matter the round. What good does a .45ACP do if you miss?
Bingo!
Shoot any caliber you choose and practice, practice, practice.
I agree, practice is very important, but how many gun owners actually practice outside of a controlled situation?
At the range, you have good lighting, time to aim, no distractions (except the guy with the bazooka), a stationary target, known distance, no stress, no quick decision (is that a hoodlum or a lost drunk?) so many stressful thoughts....will you still be able to hit your target?
Other than military or police academy, any place to get real life handgun training?
Originally Posted By: E150GT
I believe shot placement is very important no matter the round. What good does a .45ACP do if you miss?
Bingo!
Shoot any caliber you choose and practice, practice, practice.
I agree, practice is very important, but how many gun owners actually practice outside of a controlled situation?
At the range, you have good lighting, time to aim, no distractions (except the guy with the bazooka), a stationary target, known distance, no stress, no quick decision (is that a hoodlum or a lost drunk?) so many stressful thoughts....will you still be able to hit your target?
Other than military or police academy, any place to get real life handgun training?
Originally Posted By: Linctex
ALL handguns SUCK for "stopping power".
A handgun is only useful for:
1) concealment
2) fighting your way back to get a much better weapon.
I read an article where someone with a 9mm spent all 15 rounds against a mob of 4 or 5 assailants (it's been a while since I read it)
After that, I realized magazine capacity of the 9mm is better than whatever TINY bit more effectiveness you get with .45 ACP.
If .45 was still so good, then it would be STANDARD issue with many police & military all over the world.
It isn't..... for good reason.
It's got nothing to do with eating Wheaties.
No amount of semi-auto capacity is useful when it jams, and it will.
Why do you think Harry carried a .44 Mag revolver?
15 rounds spent, did he miss a lot or what?
Or did he go back and double tap the perps?
I would rather have six guaranteed than 15 maybes.
With a .44 Mag. revolver, that mob of 4 or 5 would have ended with one or two rounds still chambered. One shot, one kill.
I seen Harry do it, he was that good!
And he ate a LOT of Wheaties
ALL handguns SUCK for "stopping power".
A handgun is only useful for:
1) concealment
2) fighting your way back to get a much better weapon.
I read an article where someone with a 9mm spent all 15 rounds against a mob of 4 or 5 assailants (it's been a while since I read it)
After that, I realized magazine capacity of the 9mm is better than whatever TINY bit more effectiveness you get with .45 ACP.
If .45 was still so good, then it would be STANDARD issue with many police & military all over the world.
It isn't..... for good reason.
It's got nothing to do with eating Wheaties.
No amount of semi-auto capacity is useful when it jams, and it will.
Why do you think Harry carried a .44 Mag revolver?
15 rounds spent, did he miss a lot or what?
Or did he go back and double tap the perps?
I would rather have six guaranteed than 15 maybes.
With a .44 Mag. revolver, that mob of 4 or 5 would have ended with one or two rounds still chambered. One shot, one kill.
I seen Harry do it, he was that good!
And he ate a LOT of Wheaties
Personally, I'd never take any experts advice over what has been proven to work for you whether due to your size, the weight or operation of the gun, etc. It's not 9mm vs. .45 ACP as much as the subjective ability and preference you bring to it. I'm small and have wrists like an eight year old girl, so I'd prefer most 9mm over my other option...a four pound .38 S&W CTG revolver of the pre-Hoover era ( Herbert not J. Edgar )...that is, if we're talking the intersection between "stopping power" and clean execution in a critical situation.
If I can place a shot with an ergonomically-oriented gun that was made on a 3D printer that weighs less than a pound with as much lethality as either a 9mm or .45...then that might be my choice. I'm sure these experts could really create a storm with an article on 3D guns rather than rehashed banality over 9mm vs. .45. IMO, comfort with and ability to manipulate the gun is the most important thing if it's larger than a .22 because actual stopping power starts past that point...pick your particular poison.
If I can place a shot with an ergonomically-oriented gun that was made on a 3D printer that weighs less than a pound with as much lethality as either a 9mm or .45...then that might be my choice. I'm sure these experts could really create a storm with an article on 3D guns rather than rehashed banality over 9mm vs. .45. IMO, comfort with and ability to manipulate the gun is the most important thing if it's larger than a .22 because actual stopping power starts past that point...pick your particular poison.
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Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Personally, I'd never take any experts advice over what has been proven to work for you whether due to your size, the weight or operation of the gun, etc.
The number of weapons "experts" is truly mind numbing, isn't it? The best piece of advise I ever got from a combat weapons instructor was that everything "safety" is mandatory, for everything else do what works best for you. That was over 30 years ago when I joined the service and it has never failed me yet.
Personally, I'd never take any experts advice over what has been proven to work for you whether due to your size, the weight or operation of the gun, etc.
The number of weapons "experts" is truly mind numbing, isn't it? The best piece of advise I ever got from a combat weapons instructor was that everything "safety" is mandatory, for everything else do what works best for you. That was over 30 years ago when I joined the service and it has never failed me yet.
I have a nephew who is a police officer (captain), and in his twenty year career he has gone from 9mm to .40 cal to .45ACP.
I got to get into this.
It's been my experience that most people that tout the stopping power of the .45 ACP are military or police and really didn't spend any time with the calibers they bash such as the 9 mm. They know what they have been told by some guy with all this experience that probably never shot anything but a .45.
Having over 50 guns and shooting various calibers since I was 10 years old, I have developed my opinions.
The .45 ACP became legendary when it replaced the .38 S&W not the .38 Special but even a weaker .38. So it got this legend stopper going but it really wasn't even a fair comparison. The .45 ACP is a big SLOW slug that because of it's big bulk blunt self has terriable penntration. It only travels at about a average of 850 fps with a 230 gr ball. You can shrink the bullet weight to 185 but the speed is still pathetic and the bullet mass still makes it a cannon ball like projectile. Now that explained The .357 Magnum is the perfect cartridge to me, the .44 Magnum has too much juice and actually pokes holes, big holes, but it doesn't transfer energy, it's overkill.
With modern ammo the 9 mm is approaching the .357 ballistics top that with reliable pistols that hold 15+ rounds it has overcome the shortfalls the antique .45 Auto has not and can't.
I have hit a 55 gallon drum and watched a .45 Auto bounce off the drum if you hit it on the two ribs, 9 mm straight through.
The 1911 is another topic but it was designed like everything to be cheap mass production military gun, it was not made for quality or acuracy just like the Jeep and the Sherman Tank, mass produced, quanity over quality.
It's insane what people pay for a 1911 and it was never the gun a Luger or P38 was but it was the gun of the Victor so it's the one that's famous and they have spent so much time and effort to change into a accurate pistol and sell for stupid prices.
The .40 Cal has perfect ballistics and should be the missing link between the .45 and 9 mm but seems to fall short, maybe to powerful.
I have no experience with the .357 Sig but that seems to be a very good round.
One thing I am certain of the .45 ACP is not the best handgun round and not even close. I would choose the 9 mm over it after spending much time with them both.
It's been my experience that most people that tout the stopping power of the .45 ACP are military or police and really didn't spend any time with the calibers they bash such as the 9 mm. They know what they have been told by some guy with all this experience that probably never shot anything but a .45.
Having over 50 guns and shooting various calibers since I was 10 years old, I have developed my opinions.
The .45 ACP became legendary when it replaced the .38 S&W not the .38 Special but even a weaker .38. So it got this legend stopper going but it really wasn't even a fair comparison. The .45 ACP is a big SLOW slug that because of it's big bulk blunt self has terriable penntration. It only travels at about a average of 850 fps with a 230 gr ball. You can shrink the bullet weight to 185 but the speed is still pathetic and the bullet mass still makes it a cannon ball like projectile. Now that explained The .357 Magnum is the perfect cartridge to me, the .44 Magnum has too much juice and actually pokes holes, big holes, but it doesn't transfer energy, it's overkill.
With modern ammo the 9 mm is approaching the .357 ballistics top that with reliable pistols that hold 15+ rounds it has overcome the shortfalls the antique .45 Auto has not and can't.
I have hit a 55 gallon drum and watched a .45 Auto bounce off the drum if you hit it on the two ribs, 9 mm straight through.
The 1911 is another topic but it was designed like everything to be cheap mass production military gun, it was not made for quality or acuracy just like the Jeep and the Sherman Tank, mass produced, quanity over quality.
It's insane what people pay for a 1911 and it was never the gun a Luger or P38 was but it was the gun of the Victor so it's the one that's famous and they have spent so much time and effort to change into a accurate pistol and sell for stupid prices.
The .40 Cal has perfect ballistics and should be the missing link between the .45 and 9 mm but seems to fall short, maybe to powerful.
I have no experience with the .357 Sig but that seems to be a very good round.
One thing I am certain of the .45 ACP is not the best handgun round and not even close. I would choose the 9 mm over it after spending much time with them both.
The metrics are outdated.
Today's 9x19 is a far better round than 10, 20 or 30 years ago. That's why agencies are starting to migrate back to it from .40 and .45
A couple of sources..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat...=.a0743bbbfccah
http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/18/40-sw-fading-from-police-service/
http://www.guns.com/2016/06/30/fbi-goes-back-to-9mm-with-glock/
Bottom line for me is.. Shot placement, yes.. but I get more bullets, more chances to stop bad guys per magazine. My
Today's 9x19 is a far better round than 10, 20 or 30 years ago. That's why agencies are starting to migrate back to it from .40 and .45
A couple of sources..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat...=.a0743bbbfccah
http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/18/40-sw-fading-from-police-service/
http://www.guns.com/2016/06/30/fbi-goes-back-to-9mm-with-glock/
Bottom line for me is.. Shot placement, yes.. but I get more bullets, more chances to stop bad guys per magazine. My
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
I got to get into this.
It's been my experience that most people that tout the stopping power of the .45 ACP are military or police and really didn't spend any time with the calibers they bash such as the 9 mm. They know what they have been told by some guy with all this experience that probably never shot anything but a .45.
I've avoided replying to this thread most of the day but now I've got to get in this.
"most people that tout the stopping power of the .45 ACP are military or police and really didn't spend any time with the calibers they bash such as the 9 mm."
Not trying to be rude, but this couldn't be further from the truth. The majority of major police departments I have come into contact with carry weapons cambered in either .40 S&W or 9mm. I haven't come across a .45acp in 10+ years. The one .45 I'm referencing was carried by a guy with 40 years on and had his weapon grandfathered in when his department updated SOP years ago. My department, a department that fluctuates around 1,250 sworn, mandated the .40 S&W from approx. 1998 to 2016.
The reason I said until 2016 is because 9 months ago the department started allowing any current or new officer to select the 9mm. As I mentioned above, everyone (except grandfathered officers) carried the .40. Same weapon, same ammo and the same magazines. I was, and still am, a fan of having the guy next to you packing the same weapon/caliber/magazines - but that is an argument for another thread. Going to back to the .9mm switch, our range guys performed testing using our current .40 load against a quality .9mm load. When it was all said and done, they advocated for a policy update and switched to a 9mm. Everyone hired within the past 10 years or so have been required to purchase their own firearm. I've heard most of the newbies hired since last year are opting for the 9mm. I've been on long enough to have a departmentally owned firearm so I will carry whatever they give me. I was issued a new Gen 4 Glock 22 about 3 years ago so I'll probably have that till I retire.
Long story short, I'm not trying to tell all the .45 guys they need to switch. That's like telling someone to switch religions! I'm just saying you might want to look at the data.
That being said - .40 S&W is the caliber you should be carrying.
I got to get into this.
It's been my experience that most people that tout the stopping power of the .45 ACP are military or police and really didn't spend any time with the calibers they bash such as the 9 mm. They know what they have been told by some guy with all this experience that probably never shot anything but a .45.
I've avoided replying to this thread most of the day but now I've got to get in this.
"most people that tout the stopping power of the .45 ACP are military or police and really didn't spend any time with the calibers they bash such as the 9 mm."
Not trying to be rude, but this couldn't be further from the truth. The majority of major police departments I have come into contact with carry weapons cambered in either .40 S&W or 9mm. I haven't come across a .45acp in 10+ years. The one .45 I'm referencing was carried by a guy with 40 years on and had his weapon grandfathered in when his department updated SOP years ago. My department, a department that fluctuates around 1,250 sworn, mandated the .40 S&W from approx. 1998 to 2016.
The reason I said until 2016 is because 9 months ago the department started allowing any current or new officer to select the 9mm. As I mentioned above, everyone (except grandfathered officers) carried the .40. Same weapon, same ammo and the same magazines. I was, and still am, a fan of having the guy next to you packing the same weapon/caliber/magazines - but that is an argument for another thread. Going to back to the .9mm switch, our range guys performed testing using our current .40 load against a quality .9mm load. When it was all said and done, they advocated for a policy update and switched to a 9mm. Everyone hired within the past 10 years or so have been required to purchase their own firearm. I've heard most of the newbies hired since last year are opting for the 9mm. I've been on long enough to have a departmentally owned firearm so I will carry whatever they give me. I was issued a new Gen 4 Glock 22 about 3 years ago so I'll probably have that till I retire.
Long story short, I'm not trying to tell all the .45 guys they need to switch. That's like telling someone to switch religions! I'm just saying you might want to look at the data.
That being said - .40 S&W is the caliber you should be carrying.
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