absolutely the biggest hullaballo over nothing.
Only on BITOG do you find people engaged in argument over a few ppm!
Only on BITOG do you find people engaged in argument over a few ppm!
Does all the Fe in M1 mean to stay away?
- Thread starter tpattgeek
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Here's how I look at it. The iron is coming from somewhere, Mobil couldn't really explain it in their Q&A session either. Now if after reading about it, you believe the threads that say the higher iron is meaningless then continue to use the product. If you believe that you can find an oil that produces less iron in a UOA and that makes you feel warm and fuzzy, then use that oil.
I stopped using M1 about 3 years ago, the iron issue triggered my reaction, but Mobil's lousy way of dealing with a loyal customer [me] was the final nail in the coffin. I don't need to spend my money on their products, then look for excuses or reasons to justify or explain the higher iron readings. For me it is easier not to do business with them. Now if Pennzoil, Castrol, or any other company treats me like Mobil did I won't do business with them either. JMO
Does the higher iron mean anything?
Maybe, maybe not. Given a choice, I'll take less.
I stopped using M1 about 3 years ago, the iron issue triggered my reaction, but Mobil's lousy way of dealing with a loyal customer [me] was the final nail in the coffin. I don't need to spend my money on their products, then look for excuses or reasons to justify or explain the higher iron readings. For me it is easier not to do business with them. Now if Pennzoil, Castrol, or any other company treats me like Mobil did I won't do business with them either. JMO
Does the higher iron mean anything?
My oils are bought based solely on bang for the buck: I buy only when its on sale, if its an oil I'd buy even if it wasn't on sale, and if the price cut justifies its purchase based on my perception of the product versus alternatives.
Until very recently Mobil 1 was consistently one of the most expensive oils here, and consequently priced out of the ceiling I'll pay for any oil to give it even a second look.
More recently its been priced competitively, but only just enough to place it among the pack of decent oils to buy - not low enough to put it at the head of the pack.
I will pay a bit more for two similar products if I believe the slightly more expensive one is a little better or a little better suited to my needs. Mobil had made that short list until the BITOG Q&A was posted and I read it.
I'll preface this by saying that their entry on the short list was only marginal, relative to my perception of the product versus the recently reduced price asked for it. After reading the Q&A and watching what looked like something put together by their PR department dance around many questions, while offering up little (IMHO) in terms of useful information, their off the short list now (again, they were marginal, because of pricing and because that is one of my major criteria for buying oil). For me, how they handled the Q&A session hurt instead of helped them.
That said, it hasn't made me anti-Mobil. My filter is an M1 EP that I've been very pleased with and am looking forward to opening up to see first hand the inside of it after the cleaning cycle I ran. And due to limited choices here that prices it out of consideration for others, its actually reasonably priced for me when evaluated on its merits and the much higher prices alternatives command here versus what they cost for many on this forum. So their filters will still remain on my short list of options, based on expensive, limited alternatives and my satisfaction with this filter.
-Spyder
Until very recently Mobil 1 was consistently one of the most expensive oils here, and consequently priced out of the ceiling I'll pay for any oil to give it even a second look.
More recently its been priced competitively, but only just enough to place it among the pack of decent oils to buy - not low enough to put it at the head of the pack.
I will pay a bit more for two similar products if I believe the slightly more expensive one is a little better or a little better suited to my needs. Mobil had made that short list until the BITOG Q&A was posted and I read it.
I'll preface this by saying that their entry on the short list was only marginal, relative to my perception of the product versus the recently reduced price asked for it. After reading the Q&A and watching what looked like something put together by their PR department dance around many questions, while offering up little (IMHO) in terms of useful information, their off the short list now (again, they were marginal, because of pricing and because that is one of my major criteria for buying oil). For me, how they handled the Q&A session hurt instead of helped them.
That said, it hasn't made me anti-Mobil. My filter is an M1 EP that I've been very pleased with and am looking forward to opening up to see first hand the inside of it after the cleaning cycle I ran. And due to limited choices here that prices it out of consideration for others, its actually reasonably priced for me when evaluated on its merits and the much higher prices alternatives command here versus what they cost for many on this forum. So their filters will still remain on my short list of options, based on expensive, limited alternatives and my satisfaction with this filter.
-Spyder
Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I would caution against being hooked on any product unless you have a darn good reason. But in general, and aside from the fact that I don't use Mobil 1, I tend to agree with your assessment (for what that's worth).
I'm actually looking to find a darn good reason to become unhooked, but have failed to find it after 6 pages
(names removed) are "Hooked on M1" since M1 worked for them.
They admit it too, then say they are impartial.
Any RLI discussion? Hmmm?
Im just sayin. :cheers2:
Im with demarpaint here. Why give them any business? For some, such as myself, that is another aspect of the Oil too. nevermind all the Oil and Engine aspects, good or bad.
Maybe ill put it in my car for 200 miles, and let my car tell me what it likes. It IS at WalMart, after all. It might not even be M1. How about that?
Cheers, demarpaint. :cheers2:
*Now that that is vented, lets see what other discussion is out today. Bigger fish than M1, i love it here. Cool beans*
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I would caution against being hooked on any product unless you have a darn good reason. But in general, and aside from the fact that I don't use Mobil 1, I tend to agree with your assessment (for what that's worth).
I'm actually looking to find a darn good reason to become unhooked, but have failed to find it after 6 pages
(names removed) are "Hooked on M1" since M1 worked for them.
They admit it too, then say they are impartial.
Any RLI discussion? Hmmm?
Im just sayin. :cheers2:
Im with demarpaint here. Why give them any business? For some, such as myself, that is another aspect of the Oil too. nevermind all the Oil and Engine aspects, good or bad.
Maybe ill put it in my car for 200 miles, and let my car tell me what it likes. It IS at WalMart, after all. It might not even be M1. How about that?
Cheers, demarpaint. :cheers2:
*Now that that is vented, lets see what other discussion is out today. Bigger fish than M1, i love it here. Cool beans*
Hey, maybe that last post was a bit harsh.. Apologies, if it was. Im not a Mobil 1 expert, if that helps, so ill admit im not a chemist, tribologist, etc. What I AM is a motorist and consumer that has used many oils, in due to give M1 a shot based on the information I see and reviews and experiences car owners post both good and bad, and any way i look at it, i see M1 being average, at best. Perfect in some apps, not so much in others.. This is the recurring theme, yes?
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I said this before but the reply was deleted: If anyone is actually interested in the contents of my exchange with moving2, we will bring it back to the thread.
Im rather curious.. did he end up concluding that the appearance of extra Fe in M1 was happening, but that it literally meant nothing?
It simply seems strange, but if that was the conclusion by a non-M1 scientist, im interested.
Oh, Mobil 1, Mobil 1. What will happen when your base-stocks take a back-step towards average yet again? (I cut out the extra as it had no relevance.)
d00df00d I like the points raised in this thread, Pro-M1. PM it to me if you desire!
I said this before but the reply was deleted: If anyone is actually interested in the contents of my exchange with moving2, we will bring it back to the thread.
Im rather curious.. did he end up concluding that the appearance of extra Fe in M1 was happening, but that it literally meant nothing?
It simply seems strange, but if that was the conclusion by a non-M1 scientist, im interested.
Oh, Mobil 1, Mobil 1. What will happen when your base-stocks take a back-step towards average yet again? (I cut out the extra as it had no relevance.)
d00df00d I like the points raised in this thread, Pro-M1. PM it to me if you desire!
Two quick things:
1. The argument isn't really that the iron number on a Blackstone UOA means nothing. Obviously it means something. We just we don't know WHAT it means without more tests, which aren't included in a Blackstone UOA (mostly because they are WAY more expensive than anyone will pay for).
I guess I shouldn't have been using the word "meaningless." It means "not having a meaning," which is different from "meaning nothing..." but I can see how that gets confusing. I'll have to come up with another term...
2. I'm not pro-M1. I'm anti-(bad reasons for being anti-anything).
1. The argument isn't really that the iron number on a Blackstone UOA means nothing. Obviously it means something. We just we don't know WHAT it means without more tests, which aren't included in a Blackstone UOA (mostly because they are WAY more expensive than anyone will pay for).
I guess I shouldn't have been using the word "meaningless." It means "not having a meaning," which is different from "meaning nothing..." but I can see how that gets confusing. I'll have to come up with another term...
2. I'm not pro-M1. I'm anti-(bad reasons for being anti-anything).
Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I would caution against being hooked on any product unless you have a darn good reason. But in general, and aside from the fact that I don't use Mobil 1, I tend to agree with your assessment (for what that's worth).
I'm actually looking to find a darn good reason to become unhooked, but have failed to find it after 6 pages
(names removed) are "Hooked on M1" since M1 worked for them.
They admit it too, then say they are impartial.
Any RLI discussion? Hmmm?
Im just sayin. :cheers2:
Im with demarpaint here. Why give them any business? For some, such as myself, that is another aspect of the Oil too. nevermind all the Oil and Engine aspects, good or bad.
Maybe ill put it in my car for 200 miles, and let my car tell me what it likes. It IS at WalMart, after all. It might not even be M1. How about that?
Cheers, demarpaint. :cheers2:
*Now that that is vented, lets see what other discussion is out today. Bigger fish than M1, i love it here. Cool beans*
Hanger,
What kind of cars do you have?
Originally Posted By: tpattgeek
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I would caution against being hooked on any product unless you have a darn good reason. But in general, and aside from the fact that I don't use Mobil 1, I tend to agree with your assessment (for what that's worth).
I'm actually looking to find a darn good reason to become unhooked, but have failed to find it after 6 pages
(names removed) are "Hooked on M1" since M1 worked for them.
They admit it too, then say they are impartial.
Any RLI discussion? Hmmm?
Im just sayin. :cheers2:
Im with demarpaint here. Why give them any business? For some, such as myself, that is another aspect of the Oil too. nevermind all the Oil and Engine aspects, good or bad.
Maybe ill put it in my car for 200 miles, and let my car tell me what it likes. It IS at WalMart, after all. It might not even be M1. How about that?
Cheers, demarpaint. :cheers2:
*Now that that is vented, lets see what other discussion is out today. Bigger fish than M1, i love it here. Cool beans*
Hanger,
What kind of cars do you have?
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Is not the scenario obvious where an oil could show low FE in analysis but have a much more severe wear count of FE, Al in the filter pleats. The "high" FE in certain synthetic oil (with premium detergent additisation) is MOST likely from EP/AW conversion and suspension of particulate so they are readily detected in the single pass analyser. AGAIN - if you dont include rigorous inpsection of filter contents - you will not have enough data to make ANY conclusion whatsoever about a lubricants' wear rate in service. In other words, an oil that shows LOW FE in UOA may in actuality have the HIGHEST and most severe wear (given the AW may be inactive). It's all in the filter pleats - but you can't just mail off the filter to blackstone for a cheap, tidy analysis and answer. Accept that you've been bamboozeled! The UOA fun and games are dead. What'll we do now?
Tig1 I have the old beater Probe i suspect some Fuel dilution, and i dont want to make any possible leaking worse. All this comes to mind when i choose oils, or look at them. acuarius suggested i try M1 15W-50 and that it made his old Probe (as I have) come to life, so im keeping an open mind.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
What'll we do now?
We will accept the fact that no matter what decent-branded oil we use, the more important factors related to engine longevity include proper care and maintenance. With MY application and MY OCI's I've decided on, I will use what makes me feel best and have confidence that 20 years down the road, my engine failure or need to rebuild will not be because of the oil I used in 2007. Right now, that's M1.
What'll we do now?
We will accept the fact that no matter what decent-branded oil we use, the more important factors related to engine longevity include proper care and maintenance. With MY application and MY OCI's I've decided on, I will use what makes me feel best and have confidence that 20 years down the road, my engine failure or need to rebuild will not be because of the oil I used in 2007. Right now, that's M1.
Question: Which syn to go with?
Answer: They are all good but it is unneccesary unless high performance engine.
Question: just bought $30grand car which oil to use, regular or blend?
Answer: OMG are you stupid to spend 30g on a car and put dino or blend in it?
You ask about full syn and your told use whatever is on sale they are all good. You state you used PP instead of m1 because of the fe wear and you get crucified for the comments and the same guy who banged it in another thread stand up for it in another.
This site was awesome and informational. Was. There are only a few names on here i will even read a post from. Will skip right over and ignore others. Some are always constant. Bill from Utah has proven time and time again that it's just a lubricant in our motors. And even in it's most basic and cheapest form it will make our engines last much much longer than the rest of our car. I'm to blame aslo. I make a big deal over something so dumb as choice of motor oil. Screw it i'm using a basic fram oil filter and castrol syntec. [censored]. Now i'll go lock my doors and load the fire arms. War is sure to follow.
Answer: They are all good but it is unneccesary unless high performance engine.
Question: just bought $30grand car which oil to use, regular or blend?
Answer: OMG are you stupid to spend 30g on a car and put dino or blend in it?
You ask about full syn and your told use whatever is on sale they are all good. You state you used PP instead of m1 because of the fe wear and you get crucified for the comments and the same guy who banged it in another thread stand up for it in another.
This site was awesome and informational. Was. There are only a few names on here i will even read a post from. Will skip right over and ignore others. Some are always constant. Bill from Utah has proven time and time again that it's just a lubricant in our motors. And even in it's most basic and cheapest form it will make our engines last much much longer than the rest of our car. I'm to blame aslo. I make a big deal over something so dumb as choice of motor oil. Screw it i'm using a basic fram oil filter and castrol syntec. [censored]. Now i'll go lock my doors and load the fire arms. War is sure to follow.
.....AGAIN.....
Physical Reality...Not Emotions or Feelings.
PAO is a poor lubricant especially at lower temperatures. This is why you see higher wear metals with a PAO-based Mobil 1.
Use Pennzoil Ultra 5w-20 or any GF-5 5w-20 petroleum oil will be perfect.
Physical Reality...Not Emotions or Feelings.
PAO is a poor lubricant especially at lower temperatures. This is why you see higher wear metals with a PAO-based Mobil 1.
Use Pennzoil Ultra 5w-20 or any GF-5 5w-20 petroleum oil will be perfect.
Originally Posted By: JCM35
Question: Which syn to go with?
Answer: They are all good but it is unneccesary unless high performance engine.
Question: just bought $30grand car which oil to use, regular or blend?
Answer: OMG are you stupid to spend 30g on a car and put dino or blend in it?
You ask about full syn and your told use whatever is on sale they are all good. You state you used PP instead of m1 because of the fe wear and you get crucified for the comments and the same guy who banged it in another thread stand up for it in another.
This site was awesome and informational. Was. There are only a few names on here i will even read a post from. Will skip right over and ignore others. Some are always constant. Bill from Utah has proven time and time again that it's just a lubricant in our motors. And even in it's most basic and cheapest form it will make our engines last much much longer than the rest of our car. I'm to blame aslo. I make a big deal over something so dumb as choice of motor oil. Screw it i'm using a basic fram oil filter and castrol syntec. [censored]. Now i'll go lock my doors and load the fire arms. War is sure to follow.
It appears you believe the first set of statements, the ones I bolded.. I do hope I am on your "Good" list!
Question: Which syn to go with?
Answer: They are all good but it is unneccesary unless high performance engine.
Question: just bought $30grand car which oil to use, regular or blend?
Answer: OMG are you stupid to spend 30g on a car and put dino or blend in it?
You ask about full syn and your told use whatever is on sale they are all good. You state you used PP instead of m1 because of the fe wear and you get crucified for the comments and the same guy who banged it in another thread stand up for it in another.
This site was awesome and informational. Was. There are only a few names on here i will even read a post from. Will skip right over and ignore others. Some are always constant. Bill from Utah has proven time and time again that it's just a lubricant in our motors. And even in it's most basic and cheapest form it will make our engines last much much longer than the rest of our car. I'm to blame aslo. I make a big deal over something so dumb as choice of motor oil. Screw it i'm using a basic fram oil filter and castrol syntec. [censored]. Now i'll go lock my doors and load the fire arms. War is sure to follow.
It appears you believe the first set of statements, the ones I bolded.. I do hope I am on your "Good" list!
Originally Posted By: JCM35
Question: Which syn to go with?
Answer: They are all good but it is unneccesary unless high performance engine.
Question: just bought $30grand car which oil to use, regular or blend?
Answer: OMG are you stupid to spend 30g on a car and put dino or blend in it?
You ask about full syn and your told use whatever is on sale they are all good. You state you used PP instead of m1 because of the fe wear and you get crucified for the comments and the same guy who banged it in another thread stand up for it in another.
This site was awesome and informational. Was. There are only a few names on here i will even read a post from. Will skip right over and ignore others. Some are always constant. Bill from Utah has proven time and time again that it's just a lubricant in our motors. And even in it's most basic and cheapest form it will make our engines last much much longer than the rest of our car. I'm to blame aslo. I make a big deal over something so dumb as choice of motor oil. Screw it i'm using a basic fram oil filter and castrol syntec. [censored]. Now i'll go lock my doors and load the fire arms. War is sure to follow.
Syntec?!?! You need to go all the way down to Supertech dino if you want to make your point
Seriously, we make waaay to much about oil. Every car I've run across from family and/or friends that had very high mileage (+200k miles) all ran on regular conventional oil at prescribed (some would say conservative) OCI's. Keep in mind there are those select few owners on this board with exotic engines that require more, but that doesn't apply to 99% of us.
It's all in the maintenance.
Question: Which syn to go with?
Answer: They are all good but it is unneccesary unless high performance engine.
Question: just bought $30grand car which oil to use, regular or blend?
Answer: OMG are you stupid to spend 30g on a car and put dino or blend in it?
You ask about full syn and your told use whatever is on sale they are all good. You state you used PP instead of m1 because of the fe wear and you get crucified for the comments and the same guy who banged it in another thread stand up for it in another.
This site was awesome and informational. Was. There are only a few names on here i will even read a post from. Will skip right over and ignore others. Some are always constant. Bill from Utah has proven time and time again that it's just a lubricant in our motors. And even in it's most basic and cheapest form it will make our engines last much much longer than the rest of our car. I'm to blame aslo. I make a big deal over something so dumb as choice of motor oil. Screw it i'm using a basic fram oil filter and castrol syntec. [censored]. Now i'll go lock my doors and load the fire arms. War is sure to follow.
Syntec?!?! You need to go all the way down to Supertech dino if you want to make your point
Seriously, we make waaay to much about oil. Every car I've run across from family and/or friends that had very high mileage (+200k miles) all ran on regular conventional oil at prescribed (some would say conservative) OCI's. Keep in mind there are those select few owners on this board with exotic engines that require more, but that doesn't apply to 99% of us.
It's all in the maintenance.
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Only on BITOG do you find people engaged in argument over a few ppm!
Bad tongues have it that Waziristan is a lot like this..
Only on BITOG do you find people engaged in argument over a few ppm!
Bad tongues have it that Waziristan is a lot like this..
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
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- 39,798
One thing is certain. This Fe dog will never die. Until it is defined/explained to full satisfaction, no denial, rationalization, intellectualization, or reaction formation will stop the question that has no answer.
There is no such thing as a stupid question ..except the one that is not asked. Attempting to get people to feel foolish for the asking is not the way to deal with this. They've surely got the capability of rationally putting this matter to bed once and fall all, but choose to allow this debate to continue.
They reap the consequences.
Oh, and I think XOM makes great products.
There is no such thing as a stupid question ..except the one that is not asked. Attempting to get people to feel foolish for the asking is not the way to deal with this. They've surely got the capability of rationally putting this matter to bed once and fall all, but choose to allow this debate to continue.
They reap the consequences.
Oh, and I think XOM makes great products.
I have been using Mobil 1's HM oils and they seem to work great. Great add packs and I have used 5W30 and 10W30 in my older and newer cars. These oils are fine for new or older cars and I am sold. I haved used just about every other brand syn oil and these work as good or better when it comes to engine smoothness and fuel mileage. The price at Wallyworld is not bad either. I have done a lot of research and these just may be Mobil's best syn oils.
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