Does the oil brand actually matter? Is this all just hyperbole?

[Nesterenko]

someone else

Exactly, you're 3rd man in.

 

[oliver88]

Here is what I would like to see. A top 24 hour Le Mans team stop on the way to the track at a department type store like Walmart, (or whatever they have over there), on race day, and pick up a case of whatever oil they have on sale in a similar weight.

Fill the crankcase or tank of their race car with it, and go. And see if it's still running at the finish. Or else drain the oil out of every car at the Daytona 500, and fill it with whatever 10W-40 synthetic is the cheapest.

And run the race. And see if the same average number of cars finish. (Blown motors are becoming much more rare in NASCAR then they were 50 years ago). My guess is there wouldn't be much, if any difference.

I've seen many professional Porsche teams show up at races with cases of Mobil 1 0w40 from Wal-Mart,etc. and run it. Lot's of 911 factory race cars have never used anything else...I see others using Motul 5w40 and a few others....But those are the two primary off the shelf oils I've seen.

 

[Faawrenchbndr]

Use an oil that meets or beats the specs & weight required by the manufacturer.

Brand doesn’t matter……it’s about preference and how much YOU believe brand A, B or C is worth.

 

[edyvw]

You are assuming too much.
Your M54 engine in BMW used initial LL01. LL01 had like 7-8 updates. When Mobil1 0W40 “lost” LL01, it was bcs. oxidation in new M1 formula was bit too high for updated LL01. That Mobil1 would easily meet LL01 that was introduced in 2001.
The reason you didn’t have any issues is that M1 exceeded any requirements of LL01 that was current when M54 was produced, and still, that M1 was approved fir MB229.5, a gold standard of Full SAPS oils.
Oils you use in Acura are current API standards.

So, not sure where you going with this.

 

[NiwradND]

Honestly not trying to stir stuff up, just hear me out.

Regardless of the oil brand or duration, most of the 'I sent my oil in for analysis' posts result in the same conclusion: "I could have gone longer." So, I simply ask, why not?

My last car was a 2001 BMW 330xi and I had it for 14 years. I used to only buy dealer oil ("nothing but the best for my baby" type thinking) and Mann oil filters, when BMW switched their oil supplier I figured "if they can switch, so can I," and went to Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro because it was LL-01 approved. Some time ago that M1 oil lost the LL-01 certification, I didn't know what to do so I just kept using it.

My 330xi took SEVEN QUARTS of oil, so I was completely fine with longer OCI. The oil service minder reset at 15,525 miles. Since the car took so much oil I changed it every 10k. Later on I just drove it until the car told me the oil service was due.

Now I have an Acura TL (4.5 quarts). I've been using Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Fram Ultra Synthetic filter, replacing when the oil service minder goes off at 9,000 miles. Both the oil & filter say they're rated for 20k miles. Heck, even the user manual calls for changing the oil filter ever other oil change (I do it every time).

This has me wondering. I know a lot of you are changing at 5K, some are crazy enough to do it at 3k because it's still 1975 in your garage. What's really wrong with going 10k, 12k or 15k on the oil/filter if the manufacturer says so and so does the oil analysis places (I've seen some 15k high mileage OCI analysis has had Blackstone noting to try even longer...) say it's okay too?

What flared this up was some recent deals I've seen going on:

$24.29 5qt M1 0W-20 EP (Sold as 3 pack @ $72.88)
$22.29 5qt M1 0W-20 AFE (Sold as 3 pack @ $66.88)
$15.50 5qt Kirkland 0W-20 (Warren Full Synthetic sold as 2 pack @ $30.99)
$14.48 5qt Pennzoil 0W-20 Platinum (Not Ultra, after $25 rebate shenanigans buying 2 pack @ $26.98 each)

If I really drill down, the math is crazy:

For the cost per mile to be the same it'd be 14,100 miles on M1 EP vs 9,000 miles on Kirkland/Warren. I'd wager just about everyone here would rather use Kirkland/Warren and change at 9,000 miles, right? Even still, maybe going longer on M1 EP would have me changing the oil less often...

So I figured, all things considered, if I kept changing every 9000 miles, does it even matter what I use? Why not go longer?

Any thoughts other than "oil cheap, engines expensive, ooga booga!"

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Some people lease a vehicle for 3 years and never change the oil, now the cost of oil per mile really comes down, they just add a quart every 10,000 miles.

 

[billt460]

There are all sorts of problems and damage that are caused by too infrequent oil changes. But I have never heard anyone say changing their oil too often cost them anything, except for the cost of the oil.

 

[bbhero]

Nascar engines hold 16 quarts and the oil has a significant cooling component - not to mention it is only used for a few hours. Not saying it wouldn't be interesting, however I am not sure how informative it would be?

You are definitely right about the amount of oil in the motors and the cooling as well.

NASCAR motors have not been allowed to be pushed to their absolute limits because of…. Gear ratio being set by nascar.

So those motors aren’t running lower gears and therefore not turning 10,000 rpm like they were about doing by the mid 2000s.

No where nearly as hard on motors and oils like they were before that gear rule change.

 

[mr_boring]

Dreamliner,

There are several methods to choosing an oil brand, and the OCI:
- OEM recommendations
- recommendations from others who have similar equipment and experiences to yours
- simple wild guessing
- data driven decisions
Pick the one that best fits your comfort level.


I have over 35k UOAs in my database; probably more, but I've quit counting. I can tell you that oil brand/grade matter little, if at all, when the OCI durations are low to moderate in duration. As long as the oil meets/exceeds the OE specs, everything will be fine. And if there's a problem which develops, it's unlikely to be the fault of the lube; more likely a design or manufacturing flaw. Conversely, if you intend to greatly extend your OCIs, then I'm going to say the brand does matter greatly; premium products protect better at much longer OCI distances (out past 15k miles).

And this folks should be the bookmarked, stickied, award winning post of the century, if not the millennium. This is the answer to almost every post and reply on this forum about oil.

 

[Plawan]

Honestly not trying to stir stuff up, just hear me out.

Regardless of the oil brand or duration, most of the 'I sent my oil in for analysis' posts result in the same conclusion: "I could have gone longer." So, I simply ask, why not?

My last car was a 2001 BMW 330xi and I had it for 14 years. I used to only buy dealer oil ("nothing but the best for my baby" type thinking) and Mann oil filters, when BMW switched their oil supplier I figured "if they can switch, so can I," and went to Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro because it was LL-01 approved. Some time ago that M1 oil lost the LL-01 certification, I didn't know what to do so I just kept using it.

My 330xi took SEVEN QUARTS of oil, so I was completely fine with longer OCI. The oil service minder reset at 15,525 miles. Since the car took so much oil I changed it every 10k. Later on I just drove it until the car told me the oil service was due.

Now I have an Acura TL (4.5 quarts). I've been using Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Fram Ultra Synthetic filter, replacing when the oil service minder goes off at 9,000 miles. Both the oil & filter say they're rated for 20k miles. Heck, even the user manual calls for changing the oil filter ever other oil change (I do it every time).

This has me wondering. I know a lot of you are changing at 5K, some are crazy enough to do it at 3k because it's still 1975 in your garage. What's really wrong with going 10k, 12k or 15k on the oil/filter if the manufacturer says so and so does the oil analysis places (I've seen some 15k high mileage OCI analysis has had Blackstone noting to try even longer...) say it's okay too?

What flared this up was some recent deals I've seen going on:

$24.29 5qt M1 0W-20 EP (Sold as 3 pack @ $72.88)
$22.29 5qt M1 0W-20 AFE (Sold as 3 pack @ $66.88)
$15.50 5qt Kirkland 0W-20 (Warren Full Synthetic sold as 2 pack @ $30.99)
$14.48 5qt Pennzoil 0W-20 Platinum (Not Ultra, after $25 rebate shenanigans buying 2 pack @ $26.98 each)

If I really drill down, the math is crazy:

For the cost per mile to be the same it'd be 14,100 miles on M1 EP vs 9,000 miles on Kirkland/Warren. I'd wager just about everyone here would rather use Kirkland/Warren and change at 9,000 miles, right? Even still, maybe going longer on M1 EP would have me changing the oil less often...

So I figured, all things considered, if I kept changing every 9000 miles, does it even matter what I use? Why not go longer?

Any thoughts other than "oil cheap, engines expensive, ooga booga!"

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

It’s starts to matter when your extending ocis out a lot. Otherwise meets spec is all you need and saving $$ on lesser priced brands makes better sense.

 

[wareze]

In my opinion, regarding extending OCI’s and oil brand…it’s 70% engine design, 20% your driving commute/tendencies, and 10% the actual oil you use.

Something like that ^^^, give or take 10% between engine and commute. I just feel the oils are very similar right now with formulations/base stocks/additives/ISLAC GF6A. And they’re all pretty good.

Engine design plays a big role. Better build = longer OCI

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

Honestly not trying to stir stuff up, just hear me out.

Regardless of the oil brand or duration, most of the 'I sent my oil in for analysis' posts result in the same conclusion: "I could have gone longer." So, I simply ask, why not?

My last car was a 2001 BMW 330xi and I had it for 14 years. I used to only buy dealer oil ("nothing but the best for my baby" type thinking) and Mann oil filters, when BMW switched their oil supplier I figured "if they can switch, so can I," and went to Mobil 1 0W-40 Euro because it was LL-01 approved. Some time ago that M1 oil lost the LL-01 certification, I didn't know what to do so I just kept using it.

My 330xi took SEVEN QUARTS of oil, so I was completely fine with longer OCI. The oil service minder reset at 15,525 miles. Since the car took so much oil I changed it every 10k. Later on I just drove it until the car told me the oil service was due.

Now I have an Acura TL (4.5 quarts). I've been using Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Fram Ultra Synthetic filter, replacing when the oil service minder goes off at 9,000 miles. Both the oil & filter say they're rated for 20k miles. Heck, even the user manual calls for changing the oil filter ever other oil change (I do it every time).

This has me wondering. I know a lot of you are changing at 5K, some are crazy enough to do it at 3k because it's still 1975 in your garage. What's really wrong with going 10k, 12k or 15k on the oil/filter if the manufacturer says so and so does the oil analysis places (I've seen some 15k high mileage OCI analysis has had Blackstone noting to try even longer...) say it's okay too?

What flared this up was some recent deals I've seen going on:

$24.29 5qt M1 0W-20 EP (Sold as 3 pack @ $72.88)
$22.29 5qt M1 0W-20 AFE (Sold as 3 pack @ $66.88)
$15.50 5qt Kirkland 0W-20 (Warren Full Synthetic sold as 2 pack @ $30.99)
$14.48 5qt Pennzoil 0W-20 Platinum (Not Ultra, after $25 rebate shenanigans buying 2 pack @ $26.98 each)

If I really drill down, the math is crazy:

For the cost per mile to be the same it'd be 14,100 miles on M1 EP vs 9,000 miles on Kirkland/Warren. I'd wager just about everyone here would rather use Kirkland/Warren and change at 9,000 miles, right? Even still, maybe going longer on M1 EP would have me changing the oil less often...

So I figured, all things considered, if I kept changing every 9000 miles, does it even matter what I use? Why not go longer?

Any thoughts other than "oil cheap, engines expensive, ooga booga!"

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

There is no best oil. There is only new oil.

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

And this folks should be the bookmarked, stickied, award winning post of the century, if not the millennium. This is the answer to almost every post and reply on this forum about oil.

It is a good post, thought I wonder why anyone would have to "count" what's in their database. It's a readily available number.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Actually, I said "about everyone" as most people on here strongly advocate 5,000 OCI.

I haven't seen many debates on changing OCI based on oil brand, for example. So if OCI remains constant, why does oil brand matter? If the additive packages make a big difference, why not longer OCI to utilize it?

I used what I thought was a very good oil (Ravenol DXG) at ~6k intervals. I found on back to back OCIs that both times it sheared out of grade (Fuel <1%). I switched to HPL PCEO (the “entry level”) and went 15k OCI. I then followed that up with a 16k OCI on the No VII Euro samples at 14.4k and the oil was still doing great.

Wwillson ran over 34k on his OCI
DirectRejection runs 30k OCI

There are others who go much longer than “average” as well based on the brand of oil in their sumps.

Just because a group of people shout something repeatedly does not make it true or even accurate.

 

[nascarnation]

You are definitely right about the amount of oil in the motors and the cooling as well.

NASCAR motors have not been allowed to be pushed to their absolute limits because of…. Gear ratio being set by nascar.

So those motors aren’t running lower gears and therefore not turning 10,000 rpm like they were about doing by the mid 2000s.

No where nearly as hard on motors and oils like they were before that gear rule change.

Plus they've gone to roller cams in Cup around 2015. Those engines were previously running with flat tappets and that was probably the most intense area of development. I think that's why Gibbs went with their own oil.

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

I used what I thought was a very good oil (Ravenol DXG) at ~6k intervals. I found on back to back OCIs that both times it sheared out of grade (Fuel <1%). I switched to HPL PCEO (the “entry level”) and went 15k OCI. I then followed that up with a 16k OCI on the No VII Euro samples at 14.4k and the oil was still doing great.

Wwillson ran over 34k on his OCI
DirectRejection runs 30k OCI

There are others who go much longer than “average” as well based on the brand of oil in their sumps.

Just because a group of people shout something repeatedly does not make it true or even accurate.

I use Ravenol gear oil in a couple cars. Love that stuff. Did you post about your experience in the forum? I'd love to read about it.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I use Ravenol gear oil in a couple cars. Love that stuff. Did you post about your experience in the forum? I'd love to read about it.

Yeah it’s in the UOAs. Just search DXG and my user name…

Not saying Ravenol is all bad, but the cost/performance ratio just wasn’t there for my use. HPL went 2.5 times the mileage (and could have gone further) for about 70% of the cost. Guess the 3.5EB is a whole lot harder than any of the GM engines that use d1?

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

Yeah it’s in the UOAs. Just search DXG and my user name…

Not saying Ravenol is all bad, but the cost/performance ratio just wasn’t there for my use. HPL went 2.5 times the mileage (and could have gone further) for about 70% of the cost. Guess the 3.5EB is a whole lot harder than any of the GM engines that use d1?

It is definitely expensive. The gear oils were useful to me at the time as I couldn't seem to find any alternatives, plus they're like once every 40k miles kind of oils. I probably won't go back because I paid pre-Covid prices and even then it was definitely up there. Now I think it's doubled, or worse.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

It is definitely expensive. The gear oils were useful to me at the time as I couldn't seem to find any alternatives, plus they're like once every 40k miles kind of oils. I probably won't go back because I paid pre-Covid prices and even then it was definitely up there. Now I think it's doubled, or worse.

On paper they definitely have some impressive offerings.. other products may perform just fine. Gear oils are kinda hard to screw up from the looks of things, even though there are definitely tiers of performance.

 

[BrainThicknessVariation]

On paper they definitely have some impressive offerings.. other products may perform just fine. Gear oils are kinda hard to screw up from the looks of things, even though there are definitely tiers of performance.

Alright I just checked and an oil change kit with a Mahle oil filter and their VMO line is $102. That's not terrible. Liquimoly and Motul will run me about the same for their premium oils.

I mean it's definitely not Castrol Edge with a rebate from Walmart. I think I got 2x5L jugs year for $35 all-in or something absurd like that. I paid $55 for 2 and there was a $20 rebate IIRC.

Ya the gear oils I just needed GL-5 and I was good to go, but the particular weight I couldn't seem to find. I needed the Toyota stuff out of the big can but back then it wasn't available outside of suspect Amazon and it was very pricey.

 

[Chumango]

I can tell you that oil brand/grade matter little, if at all, when the OCI durations are low to moderate in duration. As long as the oil meets/exceeds the OE specs, everything will be fine. And if there's a problem which develops, it's unlikely to be the fault of the lube; more likely a design or manufacturing flaw. Conversely, if you intend to greatly extend your OCIs, then I'm going to say the brand does matter greatly; premium products protect better at much longer OCI distances (out past 15k miles).

Assuming a non-boutique full synthetic, what are your definitions of low, moderate, and long OCI?