Changing oil less often is better for your engine - SAE

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Another advantage to a cartridge filer is that the oil change can be done completely from the top eliminating the need to get under the vehicle or use ramps, jacks or lifts. A suction device like a MityVac makes for a very easy change for anyone.


Topside filter change isn't unique to cartridges.

Many vehicles have a topside spin on filter.

UD

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Cartridge filters are the new thing because it's less waste as it's can be tossed in an incinerator whereas a metal can has to be de-constructed, the can wash and recycled and then the internals incinerated which usually doesn't happen and it just ends up in a landfill. Plus the OE gets to decide and ensure the bypass pressure is maintained properly and not the filter manufacturer which eliminates problems with substandard filters.


Substandard filters can cause issues in engines with built in bypass valves too. If a filter is too restrictive for the bypass setting, that can make the bypass valve open more often than it should. So you guys with cartridge filters, make sure you use a filter that's a good flowing filter (ie, low delta-p vs flow performance).

 

[StevieC]

Sorry I should have worded that better. I was just making a point that you can have filter brands that don't match OE bypass ratings because they want to use one filter for multiple applications and will match one but not the other and a cartridge filter leaves that in the hands of the manufacturer because the bypass is in the filter housing etc. to determine which means it can't be played with.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Another advantage to a cartridge filer is that the oil change can be done completely from the top eliminating the need to get under the vehicle or use ramps, jacks or lifts. A suction device like a MityVac makes for a very easy change for anyone.


I would be worried vacuuming out the oil wouldn't get everything versus letting it flow out of the pan would. If there was junk at the bottom of the pan for example.

Of the pans I have taken off I have always seen a collection of carbon bits and minor metal filings along with some globules of thickened oil. This is in engines where proper maintenance was done but where a lot of miles have accumulated. (Conventional though)

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by UncleDave
Originally Posted by PimTac
Another advantage to a cartridge filer is that the oil change can be done completely from the top eliminating the need to get under the vehicle or use ramps, jacks or lifts. A suction device like a MityVac makes for a very easy change for anyone.


Topside filter change isn't unique to cartridges.

Many vehicles have a topside spin on filter.

UD



Good to know.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Sorry I should have worded that better. I was just making a point that you can have filter brands that don't match OE bypass ratings because they want to use one filter for multiple applications and will match one but not the other and a cartridge filter leaves that in the hands of the manufacturer because the bypass is in the filter housing etc. to determine which means it can't be played with.


Yeah, the built-in bypass valve can't be played with ... but the design of the filter media can be. It still comes down to the filter flow characteristics matching the bypass valve to some extent. I'm sure most main company filter makers will make cartridge filters that flow well and match OK with the bypass valve setting in the cartridge cap, but some off-brand weird elchapo filter might not.

 

[StevieC]

I hear yah there...

 

[Garak]

Ed Hackett and Mola have commented on some of these issues, particularly the order of magnitude less wear claim. Shannow points out some of the benefits that really are there, but in certain respects, we have to watch where and what we read into things, particularly when trying to divine wear based upon iron numbers when there's residual oil.

 

[spasm3]

That paper was 2007. So the data was collected prior to that. That may be accurate for that era technology. I'm not sure it applies now to the DI era. It may be that DI makes no difference but who knows.
I personally feel that DI is going make me go back to the carbuerator era oil changes. 5000miles max.

I do 7500 on the elantra, but i'm afraid to in the DI mazda. I'm going to pull a mid oci sample and see what the fuel dilution is. My wife drives 8 miles to work and 8 miles home. I'm going to pull a sample on a sub 40f day on an 8 mile run.

 

[bbhero]

I wonder why my gas mileage is about 1-1.4 mpg better with new oil vs old oil??? Less friction and better lubricity I bet helps with that.

Nothing wrong with going real long runs... Open highway and na motors with a good history, and a large capacity of oil would make that a good way to go there... 12-15k miles can be done in those circumstances... PSD did that on Mobil Super no less.

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted by Brigadier
Right, that is why my owner's manual recommends 3750 oci for severe service which just about 90% of BITOGER's fall under. But hey, what do they know?

Go ahead with your extended OCI, we will wait for your post on your bad timing chains on your GDI engine due to the soot floating around in your oil for so long.


I have changed oils on all my Hyundai's, both port and DI, at 5K intervals. There is no difference in the colour of the drained DI engine oil VS the port injected oil, leading me to believe there isn't a sludge issue.

 

[tiger862]

On the 2012 Impala I change oil it is at or around 130k with oil changes between 5k to 8k with Pennzoil Gold and motor has never been opened. The only replacement at this mileage was an alternator at 75k. The owner doesn't do anything not even changing plugs as she stated it runs so good why mess with it. Only ever had Shell gas so I would say DI is not a problem in this vehicle. 3.6

On all my vehicles I always run until they get to expensive to repair and judge oil changes on yearly mileage or trips I am taking with never a sludge problem or oil related problem.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Brigadier


Then what would you set it at? Just curious....


How can anyone answer this? Without knowing the average engine RPM, oil capacity, fuel economy, tolerances, tempature, cooling capacity, and likely other factors I'm not accounting for?

 

[HondaTech250]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Another advantage to a cartridge filer is that the oil change can be done completely from the top eliminating the need to get under the vehicle or use ramps, jacks or lifts. A suction device like a MityVac makes for a very easy change for anyone.


My Cruze's oil filter would like to have a word with you.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by HondaTech250
Originally Posted by PimTac
Another advantage to a cartridge filer is that the oil change can be done completely from the top eliminating the need to get under the vehicle or use ramps, jacks or lifts. A suction device like a MityVac makes for a very easy change for anyone.


My Cruze's oil filter would like to have a word with you.



It sounds like GovMo is reverting back to the old days then. I have memories of trying to install a cartridge filter on a early fifties Chevy sedan. It was not fun.

 

[StevieC]

GM either needs to send the bean counters packing or they need to just admit defeat and go away. They have the ability to build quality products but the bean counters wreck it and unleash their stupidity on everyone in the form of poorly constructed products. THERE I SAID IT.

 

[SonofJoe]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that however hard you look, you won't find a single professional oil formulator out there that genuinely believes engine oil has anything to do with TGDI timing chain wear. Timing chain wear problems are a function of chain design, manufacture & metallurgy.

The amount of 'soot' you accumulate in oil in a TGDI engine is miniscule when compared to that of a diesel engine. Any modern gasoline oil contains exactly the same componentry as diesel oil to deal with that soot (primarily ashless dispersant).

And treat all that twaddle about TGDI soot being particularly 'hard & abrasive' with a massive pinch of salt . Exactly the same thing was being said about diesel soot several years when Cummins were bleating about their crosshead wear problems.

Yes, timing chain wear is now a specified engine test that has to be passed by oil formulators to get spec approvals but has this actually changed the way oils are formulated? I could be wrong but I'd bet serious money that it hasn't.

 

[madeej11]

Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by PimTac
Trying to fit a blanket idea on multiple situations never works out. Getting people off of the every 3k oci is one thing but pushing longer oci on some of today's engines is not a good idea.


used oil analysis with TBN/TAN is a good way to gauge what is safe or following the conservative OLM's with a high quality oil. But yeah I agree 3K OCI needs to go even 6K is more than fine with just about every engine out there today.

I just found it interesting that there is less friction and wear as an oil ages a bit than with fresh oil.



Right, that is why my owner's manual recommends 3750 oci for severe service which just about 90% of BITOGER's fall under. But hey, what do they know?

Go ahead with your extended OCI, we will wait for your post on your bad timing chains on your GDI engine due to the soot floating around in your oil for so long.

You have to change your oil at 3750 because you probably own sorry to say, a piece of junk. What kind of foolishness is that to even buy a vehicle that needs an OCI of 3750 miles. Talk about starting off badly right from the get go. Also I think that's news to everyone here that 90% fall under severe service. Where did you come up with that figure? That's not even close. They may OCI as such but they certainly don't need to.

 

[ChrisD46]

In the Hyundai GDI engine I drive , there is no way that oil will last 12K+ miles as by 4K ~ 5K Miles of suburban driving the synthetic 5W30 oil is dark and smells of fuel dilution .

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
In the Hyundai GDI engine I drive , there is no way that oil will last 12K+ miles as by 4K ~ 5K Miles of suburban driving the synthetic 5W30 oil is dark and smells of fuel dilution .

No offense, but this isn't a good way to tell the condition of the oil. Proper used oil analysis with proper fuel numbers that aren't interpreted is the only way to tell if the lubricant is suitable for continued use. At 8K miles (13,000km) the oil I was using in my not GDI Santa Fe was toast but it was still amber in colour on the dipstick and smelled fine but the used oil analysis said it needed to be changed because of nitration and the TAN shooting up too far. (The 2.7 Litre was hard on oil) Manual called for 6,000km (3750 mile) OCI's.