Redline Drain Intervals

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33,974
Location
Southern NJ
quote:
Red Line stands alone in the ability to provide extended drain intervals and lower friction and wear. Red Line Synthetic oils have been shown to last 25,000 miles in field tests; however we recommend shorter drain intervals in order to provide a margin of safety with the oil. We recommend draining the oil between 12,000 and 18,000 miles depending on the type of service and the degree of blow-by gases contaminating the oil. High-speed freeway driving is easy on the oil due to its excellent thermal stability. If the engine is worn and if considerable stop-and-go driving is involved, 10,000-12,000 mile drains are suggested. A good rule of thumb to follow is to change the oil at least once a year regardless the mileage. Manufacturers warranty requirements should be followed while under warranty. Filters can be changed every 5,000 to 7,500 miles in order to assure filter durability is not a problem. Red Line makes a 15W40 Diesel Engine Oil for diesel engines. The diesel engine oils contain significantly greater detergency and total base number (TBN) which helps keep the engine clean. This additional detergency is not recommended for gasoline engines since it could increase the tendency for spark plug fouling. Even though the Red Line Motor Oils meet the specifications for diesel engines, the Diesel Engine Oil should be used where extended drains (10,000 miles +) are required.
I like the way Redline recommends drain intervals. [Smile]
 

Al

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19,162
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
quote:
Originally posted by buster: [QUOTE]Red Line stands alone in the ability to provide extended drain intervals
I have yet to see it here [Smile]
 

buster

Thread starter
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33,974
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Southern NJ
True, it seems to be much more suited for racing. I just like the fact that they are more realistic then to just say 25k. [Smile]
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Buster, Most of the drain intervals I've seen with Redline have been 5k-10k miles. I don't really think it's suitable for what I'd call extended drains due to all the moly. I've yet to see a 12k interval with Redline, much less 25k. I think they're dreaming ... [Wink] TooSlick
 
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658
Location
EU
I like the way Redline recommends drain intervals. So do I. The hype knob is turned way down. My view is that this is compromise language in a token attempt to broaden their appeal while distinguishing themselves from Amsoil. The Redline website and the manner in which they present themselves and their products just shouts "Race Speed Power". That's not necessarily a bad thing and I'm not criticising. Their oil appears to be very well designed and formulated, but I think that they're missing some opportunity to reach other markets. Perhaps we're seeing relatively short drain interval analyses because most of the users are hard drivers who are accustomed to changing out their oils frequently because of the demands that they make upon it. I don't know that to be the case, but am just speculating. I'd like to see more results for Redline oil used in the "family car" or the daily driver that never sees the track and doesn't get over-revved.
 
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903
Location
CA
Jay Halfway down in this thread you'll find a link to a study that suggests oxidation products and Mo aren't compatable. What it doesn't tell you is what effect a base oils resistance to oxidation is. I think you'd have to read the SAE paper that was referenced.
 

buster

Thread starter
Messages
33,974
Location
Southern NJ
quote:
So do I. The hype knob is turned way down.
That was my point. While Amsoil is probably the best long drain oil, we all know a general 25k claim is not the norm. I think being a bit more conservative is in everyone's best interest.
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Jay, As the moly breaks down through use, you tend to generate by-products which are acidic/abrasive and deplete the detergent/dispersant additives. If you do a survey of the long drain, ACEA "A3/B4" oils used in Europe, you will not find anybody using 600-700 ppm of moly. I'd be concerned about excessive Pb, Sn,Cu wear with drain interval longer than 10k miles on Redline. It would be interesting to run some and test it every 3k miles and plot how the TBN depletes over time .... For Redlines intended market, the street racer crowd, I think having the big slug of moly probably helps a bit under extreme conditions. However if your goal is to formulate a stable, long drain oil for street use, I'd think they'd be better off using 75-150 ppm of moly, as Mobil does with their formulations. You have to balance the # of moly with the amount of ZDDP, since they interact with one another. I could be wrong about this of course, but given the baseline additive chemistry of Redline - which looks extremely robust - the TBN retention is not as good as I'd expect it to be. TooSlick
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: I'd be concerned about excessive Pb, Sn,Cu wear with drain interval longer than 10k miles on Redline. It would be interesting to run some and test it every 3k miles and plot how the TBN depletes over time ....
If you're patient enough, 3 Mad Ponchos LS1 synthetic oil test will run Redline after he's done with Amsoil. So we'll get to see the condition of the oil every 1000 miles.
 
You wanted results from someone running Red Line in a street car? In my 1997 Escort wagon . . . Wait! Come back here! . . . I switched over from dino (changed every 3,000 miles like clockwork) to Red Line 10W30 at a little over 100,000 miles. Had to do some unexpected filter changes when the Red Line flushed out gunk in the engine and plugged the filter. Since the first change, which I did at 3,000 miles because of this issue, I've been using Red Line ever since. I change the filter every 3,000 miles and the oil and filter every 6,000 miles. My car now has 213,000 miles and uses no oil. By the way, for those of you concerned about K&N air filters allowing extra dirt into the engine, I've been using a K&N filter for even longer. Not consuming oil should indicate that K&N filters are safe for the long term. What is visible of the valvetrain when the oil filler is opened is very clean. Very clean. You will note that my oil changes are very conservative. Sorry, but I just don't trust the hype about extended drain intervals for any synthetic oil, though Red Line is in my view very forthright and honest. It took a long time for me to reconsider using any synthetic. I remember seeing in magazine ads in the late 1970s the original Mobil 1 claim that users could go 12,000 miles between oil changes--a claim that was later deleted from ads. My father fell for that crap and switched to Mobil 1 but soon had problems with leaking seals and gaskets. After I bought my mother's Toyota, which had been switched, I got to spend the $ to replace said seals and gaskets. The problem was that no automaker then permitted such long intervals then even with synthetic use, and few do even now. Ford says 5,000 miles between oil changes for "normal" duty and 3,000 miles for "severe" duty, the schedule I followed with dino oil. Not following this schedule will void the warranty, as Red Line notes (Mobil didn't). With Red Line I am simply extending the "normal" duty schedule slightly, and the car has long been out of warranty anyway. To sum up, I am pleased with Red Line and recommend its oil to everybody who is interested in synthetics. I use other Red Line products as well and have been quite happy with them. This is one of the few outfits that seems to live up to its claims; I'm just not willing to go longer between oil changes. One other note: I am deeply concerned about some of Amsoil's claims, which along with the Amway-style multilevel marketing is enough to keep me from using its products. Amsoil is claiming incredible lengths--20,000 miles or even more with analysis--between oil changes, but what's even more questionable, it claims that its two-stroke oil can be mixed and used at 100:1 with fuel regardless of what ratio the engine manufacturer calls for. Most call for 40:1 or 50:1. Will Amsoil replace a ruined two-stroke engine? Red Line makes two-stroke oil and says that it was designed for a 50:1 mix but to follow manufacturers' recommendations. Also, at a car swap meet in Pennsylvania a couple of years ago, an independent Amsoil rep showed me lab reports that essentially claimed that Red Line was garbage and did not meet API specs! However, though I didn't tell him, I have studied lubrication and could tell that the lab report was bogus. When I e-mailed Red Line with this chump's claims, the you-know-what hit the fan. Question about Amsoil: if a company sells using multilevel marketing and constantly recruits new salespeople, makes claims about its products that raise some concern with people who believe in listening to engine manufacturers' recommendations, and allows its reps to circulate bogus lab reports about its direct competition, would you want to use its products? Amsoil's products are probably excellent, but why sell stuff this way? [ April 28, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: ekrampitzjr ]
 
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1,034
Location
GA, USA
[Off Topic!] Although I use Amsoil S2000 motor oil w/o a problem, ekrampitzjr hit the nail on the head when it comes to the use of their universal ATF. I remember an Amsoil rep telling me that Amsoil ATF is better than the RL C+ I was using in my Dodge Intrepid. I've read/heard too many horror stories about Mopar trannies going kaput because people use the wrong/universal fluid. He said Amsoil would replace my tranny if was ruined because of their fluid. I wasn't about to take the chance and go through the hassle of filing a claim if the worst came. I guess you have to take some of these claims with a grain of salt and do research before you use a product. I guess that's why we participate on this board.
 
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450
Location
The Bay Area
ekrampitzjr~ I am wholeheartedly in agreement with your rationale. I have been using nothing but Red Line since my truck was new. Red Line 10W-30 Red Line D4 ATF Red Line WaterWetter Red Line SI-1 Fuel system cleaner (every oil Ch) I'm sold on their product. I have had nothing but great experiences with them. I even have called up Dave Granquist, in Benicia, Ca. to ask questions about their formulation. He has spent time, in great detail, going over the products and emailed me some outside lab results concerning the products. GO RED LINE and it is ON THE TOPIC! [ April 30, 2003, 02:44 AM: Message edited by: mf150 ]
 
Messages
22,188
Location
Colorado Springs
I'm changing my Redline every 5,000 miles as soon as I'm done RXing and LCing my new Corolla. Ah ****, I may go 7500 as that is the highway interval in the manual and that's what I'll be driving mostly. All I got was 10w-30 so I won't run it in winter; despite being synthetic, it's cold weather properties aren't that great. It's a high heat oil.
 
Messages
6,380
Location
New Braunfels
Yeah, a 6 month or mid mileage filter change and top would help as with any oil. I would love to see a sample from an engine that has used redline for teo or three years.
 
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