Changing oil less often is better for your engine - SAE

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 21, 2008
Messages
25,104
Location
ON, Canada eh?
Not sure if this was posted here yet but I did try to search first.

https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2007-01-4133/

Quote
The Effect of Oil Drain Interval on Valvetrain Friction and Wear 2007-01-4133
Engine oils are subjected to a series of industry standard engine dynamometer tests to measure their wear protection capability, sludge and varnish formation tendencies, and fuel efficiency among several other performance attributes before they are approved for use in customer engines. However, these performance attributes are measured at the end of tests and therefore, do not provide any information on how the properties have changed during the tests. In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15 % lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils. It was also observed that the composition of the tribochemical films formed was quite different on the surface tested with the drain oils from those formed with fresh oils. The objective of this investigation is to demonstrate how the friction and wear performance changed with oil drain intervals. A fleet of three vehicles was run in Las Vegas and oil samples were collected at various drain intervals from 3000 miles to 15000 miles. As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability. These improvements were observed as early as the 3000 mile drain interval and continued to the 15000 mile drain interval. The composition of tribochemical films formed on the surface with the 3000 mile drain interval is similar to that formed with the 12000 mile drain interval as seen before. These findings could be an enabler for achieving longer drain interval although several other factors must to be considered.
 
Last edited:
Trying to fit a blanket idea on multiple situations never works out. Getting people off of the every 3k oci is one thing but pushing longer oci on some of today's engines is not a good idea.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac
Trying to fit a blanket idea on multiple situations never works out. Getting people off of the every 3k oci is one thing but pushing longer oci on some of today's engines is not a good idea.


UOA's with TBN/TAN is a good way to gauge what is safe or following the conservative OLM's with a high quality oil. But yeah I agree 3K OCI needs to go even 6K is more than fine with just about every engine out there today.

I just found it interesting that there is less friction and wear as an oil ages a bit than with fresh oil.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Ya, it has been discussed before.

I missed it so I'm sure others have as well. I wish the search feature on BITOG worked better. I use Google outside of BITOG search but it can also not turn up what you are looking for. I did both before posting this.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by PimTac
Trying to fit a blanket idea on multiple situations never works out. Getting people off of the every 3k oci is one thing but pushing longer oci on some of today's engines is not a good idea.


UOA's with TBN/TAN is a good way to gauge what is safe or following the conservative OLM's with a high quality oil. But yeah I agree 3K OCI needs to go even 6K is more than fine with just about every engine out there today.

I just found it interesting that there is less friction and wear as an oil ages a bit than with fresh oil.



Right, that is why my owner's manual recommends 3750 oci for severe service which just about 90% of BITOGER's fall under. But hey, what do they know?

Go ahead with your extended OCI, we will wait for your post on your bad timing chains on your GDI engine due to the soot floating around in your oil for so long.
 
When I saw "Las Vegas" I stopped reading. Probably a Taxi Cab study. Not applicable to the way vehicles are typically used in 99% of all other cases across North America.
 
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by PimTac
Trying to fit a blanket idea on multiple situations never works out. Getting people off of the every 3k oci is one thing but pushing longer oci on some of today's engines is not a good idea.


UOA's with TBN/TAN is a good way to gauge what is safe or following the conservative OLM's with a high quality oil. But yeah I agree 3K OCI needs to go even 6K is more than fine with just about every engine out there today.

I just found it interesting that there is less friction and wear as an oil ages a bit than with fresh oil.



Right, that is why my owner's manual recommends 3750 oci for severe service which just about 90% of BITOGER's fall under. But hey, what do they know?

Go ahead with your extended OCI, we will wait for your post on your bad timing chains on your GDI engine due to the soot floating around in your oil for so long.


That is a default one size fits all that will work with the cheapest lubricant meeting the specification under the worst of driving patterns in that category "Severe". Lots of things can extend the OCI and a UOA can tell you if the lubricant is suitable for continued use. SCIENCE through proper Analysis.
wink.gif
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by gfh77665
When I saw "Las Vegas" I stopped reading. Probably a Taxi Cab study. Not applicable to the way vehicles are typically used in 99% of all other cases across North America.


Get a UOA. Then it's 100% applicable to your situation.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by PimTac
Trying to fit a blanket idea on multiple situations never works out. Getting people off of the every 3k oci is one thing but pushing longer oci on some of today's engines is not a good idea.


UOA's with TBN/TAN is a good way to gauge what is safe or following the conservative OLM's with a high quality oil. But yeah I agree 3K OCI needs to go even 6K is more than fine with just about every engine out there today.

I just found it interesting that there is less friction and wear as an oil ages a bit than with fresh oil.



Right, that is why my owner's manual recommends 3750 oci for severe service which just about 90% of BITOGER's fall under. But hey, what do they know?

Go ahead with your extended OCI, we will wait for your post on your bad timing chains on your GDI engine due to the soot floating around in your oil for so long.
Yup . Last time i went to buy oil i asked them do you have a 0W40 with say 2000 miles or even 3000 miles if the price is right , and give me one of those old filters while you at it . If you get lucky some ond trans. fluid may have just got dropped off .
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by PimTac
Trying to fit a blanket idea on multiple situations never works out. Getting people off of the every 3k oci is one thing but pushing longer oci on some of today's engines is not a good idea.


UOA's with TBN/TAN is a good way to gauge what is safe or following the conservative OLM's with a high quality oil. But yeah I agree 3K OCI needs to go even 6K is more than fine with just about every engine out there today.

I just found it interesting that there is less friction and wear as an oil ages a bit than with fresh oil.



Right, that is why my owner's manual recommends 3750 oci for severe service which just about 90% of BITOGER's fall under. But hey, what do they know?

Go ahead with your extended OCI, we will wait for your post on your bad timing chains on your GDI engine due to the soot floating around in your oil for so long.


That is a default one size fits all that will work with the cheapest lubricant meeting the specification under the worst of driving patterns in that category "Severe". Lots of things can extend the OCI and a UOA can tell you if the lubricant is suitable for continued use. SCIENCE through proper Analysis.
wink.gif



What is your average speed? If it is under 45MPH, IMO it falls under severe service category. GDI and TGDI engines put a halt to extended OCIs for the most part. Plenty of evidence to back this up.

UOA's don't show the concentration of GDI soot particles in your oil. It is said that these particles are the biggest cause of timing chain wear and failure.
 
"unconfirmed" evidence. Confirm it for a small price one time why would folks rather pee away money on unnecessary oil changes rather than having one sample analyzed to find a safe interval? Plus according to the SAE article above more friction and increased wear in the process with these unnecessary oil changes.

The cost savings of less oil changes will pay for that test more times over and you get to see other problems that might exist in the oil sample like coolant before they are a big problem.
21.gif
 
Last edited:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4722413/Extended_OCI_:_"Just_
 
Originally Posted by Brigadier
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4722413/Extended_OCI_:_"Just_


Again it's conservative one size fits all statement from the Manufacturer. Guaranteed if you fall in the "Severe" service category and do a UOA you will see the lubricant can be used past the conservative 3750.
 
https://www.autoserviceworld.com/carsmagazine/dont-blame-the-oil/

Quote
Gasoline direct injection (GDI) is a technology that is becoming the norm in our industry. It has created some concerns with deposits as well (See "Clearing the Carbon" on page 36). Some of these engines are prone to valve deposit issues but there's another area of concern: soot.

The GDI combustion process is introducing more soot into the engine's oil. The soot that a GDI engine creates is carbonaceous and not like regular soot created in a non-GDI engines. This has captured the attention of both car manufacturers and lubricant manufacturers.

GDI-produced soot has been found to react with certain lubricants and additive packages in a very unique way. Traditionally, soot leads to the thickening of engine oil and eventually the formation of sludge. But this soot tends to cause engine wear. The combination of combustion acids, fuel dilution from incomplete combustion and GDI soot, has been found to be a substantial reason for accelerated timing chain wear. It may not be a coincidence that GM's 2.4 and 3.6 engines - which suffer from timing chain issues - use gasoline direct injection.
 
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Brigadier
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4722413/Extended_OCI_:_"Just_


Again it's conservative one size fits all statement from the Manufacturer. Guaranteed if you fall in the "Severe" service category and do a UOA you will see the lubricant can be used past the conservative 3750.



AGAIN, UOA's DON't show the GDI soot levels. So it is useless for that.
 
AND THE UOA WILL TELL YOU IF THE LUBRICANT CAN BE USED FURTHER. YOUR POINT IS MOOT BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON A DEFAULT STATEMENT FROM THE MANUFACTURER AND NOT CONFIRMED THROUGH ACTUAL ANALYSIS!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by StevieC
AND THE UOA WILL TELL YOU IF THE LUBRICANT CAN BE USED FURTHER. YOUR POINT IS MOOT BECAUSE IT'S BASED ON A DEFAULT STATEMENT FROM THE MANUFACTURER AND NOT CONFIRMED THROUGH ACTUAL ANALYSIS!



How will the UOA tell me the ppm of GDI soot that is abrasive and destroying the timing chains if the UOA doesn't measure GDI soot? Can you answer that question without parroting the kool aid?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top