Car recommends 5W-30 outside US and Canada vs 0W-20. Run 5W-30 right?
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Yea, rings back in the day were either chromed steel or iron. Plasma/nitrided rings and low-tension designs as well as DLCs seem like they commonplace now with the OEs.
Jackson_Slugger
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You know people can't handle the discussion when the memes start appearing ... nobody is forcing anyone to read this thread.
Don't always agree with you and memes have their place, but yeah you are 100% correct - calm down, it's only words....
Jackson_Slugger
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No one is going to spontaneously combust because their motor oil is too thick or thin....
Jackson_Slugger
$50 Site Donor 2022
Then again...
Does the engine jerk around when it goes to two cylinders? I know people who have the same engine. They don’t notice it at all. Same with the Start/Stop on those. You probably have that too.
This is generally true for anybody took the time to learn about variable displacement oil pumps whether vane or gerotor type.
These pumps are pcm-controlled and do indeed operate based upon feedback from rpm / speed sensors and oil pressure sensors as well as oil temperature or engine coolant temperature and intake air temperature sensors in order to determine the pumping displacement.
The algorithm used assumes the viscosity that was specified for the vehicle.
The question that came up in this thread was something like... "if that was true then how could this oil pump handle oil at subarctic temperatures and in South Florida type temperatures"
As above the PCM receives multiple sensor inputs and varies it's displacement based upon them but it does assume and its algorithm is programmed for the oil that the engineers specced for the vehicle.
Engineers familiar with these advanced designs will recall that using the wrong viscosity can actually trigger a CEL as the flow that is being measured is different from what the PCM algorithm is expecting and it assuming a fault in the lubrication system.
I suspect that the difference between a 16 weight and a 20 weight would not be enough to throw this off but the difference between a 20 weight and a 40 weight would be much more likely to.
Think of it like fuel trims where the modern automobile has about 25% of ability to fuel trim based upon vastly different conditions such as driving in -20° weather at sea level versus driving in 110° weather at 10,000 ft altitude but based upon sensor feedback and closed loop operation the vehicle is still able to trim a significant enough amount of fuel that the vehicle will run perfectly.
And as I mentioned very early in this thread these equipment and ecu's can be extremely easily programmed for different regions so if a vehicle is programmed for a 0w30 oil in the EU it can just as easily be programmed for a 0w-20 oil in the United States and that is not always just because of Cafe requirements but again often because of differences in fuel chemistry which can impact lubrication properties and things like low speed pre ignition as well as emissions related differences in everything from crankcase ventilation to catalytic converter types to particulate filtration.
These oil pumps are getting closer and closer to this level of sophistication.
And as I said the only way to know the proper oil viscosity to use in the engine is to contact the manufacturer's engineer team and they will be more than happy to give you that advice. I would not spend time asking random people on the internet for their informed, misinformed or uninformed opinions.
from what I know, Honda fills with 0W-20 worldwide.
No ECU controlled variable displacement oil pump (no matter how much sensor feedback it has) should not be engineered to be so sensitive to oil viscosity that its control logic is going to damage the engine in any way, regardless of what the oil viscosity is. If it was, the designeers need to be fired.
If it can handle cold starts and engine warm-up in Alaska without damaging the engine, then it should certainly be able to handle any hot oil viscosity and provide adequate engine lubrication.
If it can handle cold starts and engine warm-up in Alaska without damaging the engine, then it should certainly be able to handle any hot oil viscosity and provide adequate engine lubrication.
You should theoretically get a CEL with many of the feedback loop programming before engine damage but it's not something alot of people probably long term test (using the wrong viscosity) and I'm not sure what each manufacturer programs in for ranges.
Again this yet one very small example of how cars can be programmed to different regions and oil viscosity or how and why different recommendations exist for different regions.
Fuel chemistry interacts with oil and they exist in a hopefully symbiotic relationship and fuel chemistry differs significantly in NA vs EU. Crankcase ventilation and pwm signalled crank ventilation solenoids are and can be programmed and utilized differently based on region as are many hardware changes for different emissions regulations.
No reason for people to guess and say "shoulds" or whatever.
Just check with the manufacturer.
Where is the proof that is actually the case? Or is this just a theory that oil pumps are programmed for a specific viscosity?
The main reason diffetent oil viscosity is called out in different countries is because CAFE isn't a factor.
IIRC, some OMs (posted in other threads) for cars with ECU controlled oil pumps also call out a range of viscosity options. The engine doesn't have a "viscosity sensor", so it doesn't know what viscosiy oil is being used. So in that case it would have to be programmed to use a broad range of viscosity.
The manufacturer is just going to parrot the OM. And nobody is going to be able to talk to the actual engineers unless they know them personally outside of their job.
You can Google variable displacement oil pumps and learn all about how they function.
https://www.autoserviceworld.com/carsmagazine/1003794277-2/
Regardless this is not just about feedback loops in PCM control with respect to using an incorrect viscosity but those same controls also allow the PCM to know if there is a smaller oil pressure issue or stoppage or any number of issues and can now take immediate control of engine functions too in order to protect from damage.
In the old days you'd have had to act on readings from gauges that were 1. Not always present on many cars or 2. Not always providing accurate results.
With respect to cafe, other countries have many regulations that are in some cases more stringent than ours. In other cases not. Yes in the US we have fuel economy standards that are tough and in EU they have particulate regulations that are very tough. As an example two different cars that I own are equipped with gasoline particulate filters when sold in Europe but not on my NA cars. Catalytic converter technology for EU must be euro 6 compliant and euro 7 could be enacted in as little as 2 years. There's differences that manufacturers must account for in the software and hardware of their cars and where they operate.
Again these are just a couple of many many examples of differences.
None of us can guess. We'd need the entire vehicle self study guides of all integrated systems and to understand them.
Or we could simply ask the engineers who already know
I spoke with the chief executive engineer last month for all of Corvette, Tadge Juechter as well as Josh Holder the new head engineer and will again this month.
I speak with Mobil 1 engineers several times per year, last in March.
There are plenty of folks and plenty of ways to speak with engineers.
Just because vehicles are not scattered all over the highway does indicate that the vehicles in questions are running at optimal OEM factory condition.
When taking into factor the decreasing mechanical awareness of the populace and the outright lack of mechanical sympathy, running a grade thicker oil will help vehicles stay closer to design specifications.
I believe @billt460 has a newer Toyota that calls for 0W-16, and has the fancy Toyota sensor feedback "ECU contolled" oil pump that the Car Nut claims will "blow-up" the engine if 0W-16 is not used, lol. I bet that billt460 has never seen a check engine light for an oil pump code with the thicker oil he's used, and won't either if he runs the 0W-40. Maybe he can chime in with more info.
i can see the control logic of an ECU controlled oil pump to set troubke-codes for major oiling system issues, like extreme low or high oil pressure limits, sensor failures, etc. But not because someone used a grade or 2 higher than the specified 0W-16. Throw some of that 0W-5 Redline Racing oil in it, and it may throw a code for too low oil pressure, thinking the engine isn't getting enough oil volume.
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