CAFE Standards in the US and Oil Grades

Even if JASO or CAFE is the driving force behind greater efficiency it makes no difference.

What matters is the finished product--very thin oils, and, concurrently, better protection.

This is the mandate to be substantiated by testing.

Why does the motoring world refuse to reconcile this ?

I am talking about appropriate oil selection, and would certainly not espouse anything less than say M1 0W40 in vehicles calling for more robustness.
 
Even if JASO or CAFE is the driving force behind greater efficiency it makes no difference.

What matters is the finished product--very thin oils, and, concurrently, better protection.

This is the mandate to be substantiated by testing.

Why does the motoring world refuse to reconcile this ?

I am talking about appropriate oil selection, and would certainly not espouse anything less than say M1 0W40 in vehicles calling for more robustness.

Well, there were mechanical changes (see: Honda) to allow for the use of oils below 0w-20. Wider bearings for example, were deemed necessary because of the super thin oil film. There was an engineering paper posted on here some time back that @Shannow really dug into but the argument from the OEM wasn't that the oil offered better protection, it was that the oil offered acceptable protection in an environment where boundary and mixed regimes were going to be more common than hydrodynamic due to the thinner films, and the additive chemistry was geared toward this phenomenon. It was about controlling wear under those conditions for the sake of fuel economy because even with the wider bearings, there was still an efficiency benefit to be gained from the thinner oils. Oils that wouldn't pass even the basic API standards for Noack because of how light the bases were, so exceptions were made.
 
Well, there were mechanical changes (see: Honda) to allow for the use of oils below 0w-20. Wider bearings for example, were deemed necessary because of the super thin oil film. There was an engineering paper posted on here some time back that @Shannow really dug into but the argument from the OEM wasn't that the oil offered better protection, it was that the oil offered acceptable protection in an environment where boundary and mixed regimes were going to be more common than hydrodynamic due to the thinner films, and the additive chemistry was geared toward this phenomenon. It was about controlling wear under those conditions for the sake of fuel economy because even with the wider bearings, there was still an efficiency benefit to be gained from the thinner oils. Oils that wouldn't pass even the basic API standards for Noack because of how light the bases were, so exceptions were made.
Yes this. I'm not sure why some people are so lost on this fact.

Acceptable protection under most circumstances but never superior. It can't be.
 
I'm not convinced it is feasible to assume the engines aren't different. All you'd need is one part with a smaller oil passage to make an engine that NEEDED the thinner oil to function properly.
 
I'm not convinced it is feasible to assume the engines aren't different. All you'd need is one part with a smaller oil passage to make an engine that NEEDED the thinner oil to function properly.
Except that when oil sheers down, it gets thicker. Manufacturers would get issues with engines with people not changing oil and other things.
 
Even if JASO or CAFE is the driving force behind greater efficiency it makes no difference.

What matters is the finished product--very thin oils, and, concurrently, better protection.

This is the mandate to be substantiated by testing.

Why does the motoring world refuse to reconcile this ?

I am talking about appropriate oil selection, and would certainly not espouse anything less than say M1 0W40 in vehicles calling for more robustness.
How do you know thinner oils provide better protection?
 
I'm not convinced it is feasible to assume the engines aren't different. All you'd need is one part with a smaller oil passage to make an engine that NEEDED the thinner oil to function properly.
Nope. Then it would blow up in the winter when the oil is vastly heavier than any change between the grade on the bottle at 40C or 100C.
 
Except that when oil sheers down, it gets thicker. Manufacturers would get issues with engines with people not changing oil and other things.
When oil experiences mechanical shear (not sheer) viscosity decreases.

And it’s never the oil molecules that shear it’s the viscosity index improvers. Monograde oils do not shear.
 
If I understand correctly, there is only minimal confidence on BITOG regarding the testing protocols set up by SAE/ILSAC, to achieve SP/GF6. WOW. Just WOW.

On the subject of very thin motor oils, the first area of concern has to be the bearings. Film strength and add packs must be able to compensate for lower viscosity. Toyota's answer is to make bearings out of polymers.

After up top, the next focus must be at the rings. This is where it gets hot. The oil must run clean. Here Toyota uses DLC--Diamond Like Carbon, to mitigate coking.

Engine temperatures are controlled by sophisticated ECU software, channels at the block for oil and coolant, and electronically controlled oil pumps, thermostats, etc.

But you all already knows this.
 
If I understand correctly, there is only minimal confidence on BITOG regarding the testing protocols set up by SAE/ILSAC, to achieve SP/GF6. WOW. Just WOW.

On the subject of very thin motor oils, the first area of concern has to be the bearings. Film strength and add packs must be able to compensate for lower viscosity. Toyota's answer is to make bearings out of polymers.

After up top, the next focus must be at the rings. This is where it gets hot. The oil must run clean. Here Toyota uses DLC--Diamond Like Carbon, to mitigate coking.

Engine temperatures are controlled by sophisticated ECU software, channels at the block for oil and coolant, and electronically controlled oil pumps, thermostats, etc.

But you all already knows this.
Yes, cars that specify 0W-16 (and future 0W-8) have unique mechanical designs in order to run oil that thin. The 0W-16 oils have a different API designation and API seal/logo on the bottle in hopes to help prevent people mistakenly putting 0W-16 in a vehicle not designed for it.
 
I don't care about what oil is supposedly "recommended" by the manufacturer. I run what I run depending on what the motor sees.
15w40 or 20w50 will do just fine in comparison to those lower viscosity blends with rigorous requirements. I can't deny, VW makes great oil specifications, but you are OUT of my price range so no Volkswagen engine I run will be seeing VW spec oil. Same with toyota camry.

That could just be me, but these "thinner" oils are not terribly bad if they don't see intense operating conditions.

My odyssey 2006 - ran only 5w20 its whole life, but will see chevron 5w30 from walmart glitch week next oci. :)

None of these engines are special, so no special oil goes in it.

CAFE can't YET force what oil to run in it, they cant forcefully make you watch somebody pouring down 0w16 in an engine while tied down. So go wild.
 
In the case of the notorious Hyundai 2.4L Theta II GDI engine : It was CAFE tested with 5W20 however due to questionable rod bearings the Hyundai dealers all switched to or recommend 5W30 weight oil to give those rod bearings more film strength cushion . Since 5W30 and 10W30 were already allowed in the OM - this was an easy call for Hyundai to help counter a design flaw . After the factory fill was dumped , I switched over to 5W30 and never looked back (even though oil cap stamp says "5W20".)
...and it didn't help one bit. If your car had defective rod bearings, neither 5' nor 10W-30 was going to save it or even prolong its demise.
 
I don't care about what oil is supposedly "recommended" by the manufacturer. I run what I run depending on what the motor sees.
15w40 or 20w50 will do just fine in comparison to those lower viscosity blends with rigorous requirements. I can't deny, VW makes great oil specifications, but you are OUT of my price range so no Volkswagen engine I run will be seeing VW spec oil. Same with toyota camry.

That could just be me, but these "thinner" oils are not terribly bad if they don't see intense operating conditions.

My odyssey 2006 - ran only 5w20 its whole life, but will see chevron 5w30 from walmart glitch week next oci. :)

None of these engines are special, so no special oil goes in it.

CAFE can't YET force what oil to run in it, they cant forcefully make you watch somebody pouring down 0w16 in an engine while tied down. So go wild.
Vw spec oils are not that expensive
 
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