Are the days of the 10k OCI over with?

[zerosoma]

I'm sure I'll get some snarky replies from some self-proclaimed experts (in b4) but I've been thinking lately.

I really wonder if we've reached a state of decline (dystopia?) in our commercial lubricants, where brands are no longer proudly formulating the best product for the consumer but rather, like everything else, focusing their efforts on pleasing the man in charge (government). From VOAs and UOAs it appears most (not all) products are coming in significantly weaker both in formulation and performance than in years' past, not due to choice, but due to necessity. When the environmentalists (and car manufacturers by proxy) are screaming for less emissions, you can only bend over so far before you're bottling coconut oil and telling people to reduce their OCIs.

Having joined Bob a decade or so ago, I remember the gold standard was pretty much a 10k change for synthetics, though some pushed it further, and OCD folks would not push as far. These days I'm not seeing nearly as many lengthy intervals, and one has to wonder, with these reduced service intervals due to (imo silly, and increasingly tight) environmental regulations, are we really doing the environment any good?

-J

 

[walterjay]

Doesn't Super Tech have a 20,000 mile oil?

 

[drtyler]

The lubes are fine. The fuel dilution of the engine oil experienced by many direct injected engines is not.

 

[ctechbob]

I dunno. I'd do a 10k change on my J series engines, but not the Ranger. I think it just depends on the application.

 

[Zee09]

I blame direct injection and not the oil.

 

[Malo83]

5K for me.

 

[LDB]

I'm once a year which currently works out to 4xxx miles. I go by the OCI which seems to be both time and distance based as my annual shows somewhere 5-7% life remaining. So unless my miles jump way up I'll stick to annual.

 

[zerosoma]

Doesn't Super Tech have a 20,000 mile oil?

Mere marketing. Though probably not a good idea unless you already own a planned obsolescence vehicle. Cheers

 

[zerosoma]

The lubes are fine. The fuel dilution of the engine oil experienced by many direct injected engines is not.

Interesting take. Though Direct Injection has been a thing for a few decades now. If the problem is DI, would the reduced oil change intervals overall be due to the revelation of fuel dilution in DI engines now? As in, we're a bit more careful now that we know?

 

[AutoMechanic]

I’ve always stick to 5k or less intervals. To me the days never began of a 10k interval. The first I ever heard of it was my first job at Toyota and we were told it was spec to get the cars out of warranty and also environmental stuff which we can’t talk about here. I would never run that long on oil in any car or oil brand. They can market whatever they want but that doesn’t mean it’s always right. I think oil technology is better than ever but not good enough to go to 10k for the reason you mentioned about environmental. And just because of problems I’ve seen with engines that we believe was caused by oil I choose to keep mine lower and recommend to my customers lower while still respecting opinions of others of course. I do believe my opinion is mostly right with working at Toyota and also knowing someone that works for the EPA to verify that part of the reason they are spec to 10k is for that stuff but I won’t touch anymore on that in respect of the rules here.

 

[92saturnsl2]

I'm sure I'll get some snarky replies from some self-proclaimed experts (in b4) but I've been thinking lately.

I really wonder if we've reached a state of decline (dystopia?) in our commercial lubricants, where brands are no longer proudly formulating the best product for the consumer but rather, like everything else, focusing their efforts on pleasing the man in charge (government). From VOAs and UOAs it appears most (not all) products are coming in significantly weaker both in formulation and performance than in years' past, not due to choice, but due to necessity. When the environmentalists (and car manufacturers by proxy) are screaming for less emissions, you can only bend over so far before you're bottling coconut oil and telling people to reduce their OCIs.

Having joined Bob a decade or so ago, I remember the gold standard was pretty much a 10k change for synthetics, though some pushed it further, and OCD folks would not push as far. These days I'm not seeing nearly as many lengthy intervals, and one has to wonder, with these reduced service intervals due to (imo silly, and increasingly tight) environmental regulations, are we really doing the environment any good?

-J

Government, government, government is all anybody complains about these days.

Oil companies have to produce motor oil for the mass market. These days many engines are equipped with GDI and other technologies that limit the amount/types of additives to prevent detonation / LSPI. The oil companies know that the large volume sales/customers want to put the same oil in every car within reason. So you end up with a handful of oils that will cover all models. Capitalism at its finest, they just want to make a profit and can't do that or remain competitive if they make many different types of oils that people won't buy in volume.

If you happen to have an older vehicle with port injection or one that's fairly agnostic toward additives, there's a market for that-- boutique oils. They're still out there.

10K+ changes (and specs for extremely low viscosity) exist because a lot of car manufacturers realize that lubrication is not what ruins engines / cars. Cars are mostly disposable these days, people still have the money to get rid of them before problems happen and get into something new(er). It's the folks that buy these vehicles second or third hand and expect them to last to 15-20+ years old that get hosed. But that's not what manufacturers care about, especially during this transition to electric vehicles. All they want to do is sell and make a profit.

 

[Passport1]

I’ve always stick to 5k or less intervals. To me the days never began of a 10k interval.

Grasshopper you are wise beyond your age.

 

[eljefino]

There's a whole lot of anecdata and "feelings" in this thread. How about some UOA backed science?

 

[RazorsEdge]

I've always been doing 5000-5500 miles. Not changing my ways anytime soon.

 

[Oillover]

But that's not what manufacturers care about, especially during this transition to electric vehicles. All they want to do is sell and make a profit.

But there's also the consumer who demands a vehicle have enough capability to pair with their latest smartphone.
So it's not all the government or manfacturers to blame.
It's society in general.

With the economy going haywire and necessities (food, shelter) reaching unobtainable status, I forsee a change to this approach in the very near future.
This thread is proof of it.

 

[gregk24]

5000 miles is my max. 10K is doable but only under the right circumstances. I don't buy into the 1 year / 10K mile OCI regardless of use recommendation from some manufactures.

 

[michaelluscher]

There's a whole lot of anecdata and "feelings" in this thread. How about some UOA backed science?

I would like that as well, but some armchair conclusions are inevitable
Time has taught us that some engines have design flaws that stretching the OCI aggravates

Low tension ring Toyota 2AZs clogged up if you took 0w20 to 10k intervals

Various GM engines (2.4 I4/3.6 V6) seem to have timing chains/tensioners that fail on a good day, stretching the OCI can aggravate it
Several Hyundai/Kia engines (Theta II/Nu) struggle to survive on a good day, and I'm watching more and more of them around me develop heavy oil consumption (1qt in 700-1200 mi)
Was piston soaks, and additional cleaning additives to solve oil consumption really this high on the agenda 10 years ago?

It's hard to say if limiting the OCI to 5k would've prevented or delayed these shortcomings from appearing?

I wonder sometimes

 

[Plawan]

I'm sure I'll get some snarky replies from some self-proclaimed experts (in b4) but I've been thinking lately.

I really wonder if we've reached a state of decline (dystopia?) in our commercial lubricants, where brands are no longer proudly formulating the best product for the consumer but rather, like everything else, focusing their efforts on pleasing the man in charge (government). From VOAs and UOAs it appears most (not all) products are coming in significantly weaker both in formulation and performance than in years' past, not due to choice, but due to necessity. When the environmentalists (and car manufacturers by proxy) are screaming for less emissions, you can only bend over so far before you're bottling coconut oil and telling people to reduce their OCIs.

Having joined Bob a decade or so ago, I remember the gold standard was pretty much a 10k change for synthetics, though some pushed it further, and OCD folks would not push as far. These days I'm not seeing nearly as many lengthy intervals, and one has to wonder, with these reduced service intervals due to (imo silly, and increasingly tight) environmental regulations, are we really doing the environment any good?

-J

DI and turbo probably have a lot to do with a lot of folks not pushing ocis out too far.
I could probably take my naturally aspirated non turbo ram out to 10k on todays conventional or SBs.

 

[Furious]

Newer oils have got better therefore do not require as much additive to perform just as good or out-perform previous oils. And if you are worried about TBN it really holds no ground today it is an outdated test.

With that being said I always say stick to 5k intervals especially on these newer direct injection turbo charged engines but do what you want.

 

[frankbee3]

At the other end of the spectrum, there is Wwilson's extended OCI's with High Performance Lubricants. I think he has gone to at least 25K miles on more than once occasion and has provided some interesting data/UOA's.

I would like to see a teardown of Wwilson's engine at the end of it's life. It would be quite interesting to see what the inside of the engine looks like after a couple of hundred thousand miles. It is probably super clean inside?