Are the days of the 10k OCI over with?

[DwightFrye]

If I had a new car and all of my driving was long freeway commutes at high speed I might go 7500 miles using the best synthetic oil and a premium filter. I might even do a couple of 10k intervals and have an oil analysis done to see how things looked. But on my Mazda CX 5 I make a lot of short trips and even though the Skyactiv engines have a very effective design to deal with the DI issues I limit my OCI's to 5k and that is with Mobil 1's EP formula which is supposedly good up to 20,000 miles. A DIY oil and filter change only costs me about $40 which is cheap insurance.

According to the owners manual for my Jaguar F Type R which has a four cam 32 valve supercharged V8 the OCI's are supposed to be 16k miles. No way would I do that even under ideal conditions. I change the oil & filter on that car yearly or every 5000 miles as well.

 

[Hermann]

Oil is Oil. Change it when you feel the need. The length of the useful life of the engine will be determined by your decisions.

 

[NRMedic]

When I ran conventional oil back in the day it was a 3k change. With the conversion to synthetic, its a 5k change. I don't care what the manual says, nor what the oil label says. I'll waste good oil before I run bad oil.

 

[GR_CoB]

Depending on the vehicle - my OCI ranges from 1000 to 5000.

 

[frankbee3]

It’s a port injection engine - 3/4 of mine are GDI …

I completely overlooked direct injected engines. If I had a car that had direct injection, I wouldn’t try extended OCI’s myself. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[walterjay]

I do 4K changes on my 2017 Hyundai GDI. The oil is filthy like diesel at that point.

My daughter has a Nissan Rogue which can do a 10K oil change. I usually change it for her at about 7K and it looks pretty good.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I'm sure I'll get some snarky replies from some self-proclaimed experts (in b4) but I've been thinking lately.

Mere marketing.

 

[53' Stude]

I’ve always stick to 5k or less intervals. To me the days never began of a 10k interval. The first I ever heard of it was my first job at Toyota and we were told it was spec to get the cars out of warranty and also environmental stuff which we can’t talk about here. I would never run that long on oil in any car or oil brand. They can market whatever they want but that doesn’t mean it’s always right. I think oil technology is better than ever but not good enough to go to 10k for the reason you mentioned about environmental. And just because of problems I’ve seen with engines that we believe was caused by oil I choose to keep mine lower and recommend to my customers lower while still respecting opinions of others of course. I do believe my opinion is mostly right with working at Toyota and also knowing someone that works for the EPA to verify that part of the reason they are spec to 10k is for that stuff but I won’t touch anymore on that in respect of the rules here.

Ah yes, the old wives tales never die.

I did 10k on Toyota 0w20 in my focus and it did the job fine.

 

[AutoMechanic]

Ah yes, the old wives tales never die.

I did 10k on Toyota 0w20 in my focus and it did the job fine.

What in my post is a wives tail? Absolutely nothing. The yawn emojis are very rude.

 

[Zee09]

I do 4K changes on my 2017 Hyundai GDI. The oil is filthy like diesel at that point.

My daughter has a Nissan Rogue which can do a 10K oil change. I usually change it for her at about 7K and it looks pretty good.

A White Nissan Rogue...

 

[Zee09]

I change my gas every 500 miles...

 

[Rand]

What in my post is a wives tail? Absolutely nothing. The yawn emojis are very rude.

The first I ever heard of it was my first job at Toyota and we were told it was spec to get the cars out of warranty and also environmental stuff which we can’t talk about here. They can market whatever they want but that doesn’t mean it’s always right. I think oil technology is better than ever but not good enough to go to 10k for the reason you mentioned about environmental. And just because of problems I’ve seen with engines that we believe was caused by oil I choose to keep mine lower and recommend to my customers lower while still respecting opinions of others of course. I do believe my opinion is mostly right with working at Toyota and also knowing someone that works for the EPA to verify that part of the reason they are spec to 10k is for that stuff but I won’t touch anymore on that in respect of the rules here.

it was probably some of that. If yawn emojis are "Very" rude please get thicker skin.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

11,129 miles Taurus OCI as this post is typed and the oil looks fine...

Filter cut-open and maybe a UOA????

 

[AutoMechanic]

it was probably some of that. If yawn emojis are "Very" rude please get thicker skin.

He does it constantly. I have thick skin just he is acted like I don’t know what I’m talking about and the yawn emojis make it sound like he is shutting me down. So therefore it is rude. I do know someone who works at the EPA and do have inside information from Toyota about the oil change intervals being strictly to get the car out of warranty. He doesn’t have that info because it’s inside.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

He does it constantly. I have thick skin just he is acted like I don’t know what I’m talking about and the yawn emojis make it sound like he is shutting me down. So therefore it is rude. I do know someone who works at the EPA and do have inside information from Toyota about the oil change intervals being strictly to get the car out of warranty. He doesn’t have that info because it’s inside.

He does it constantly.

@AutoMechanic .... my friend, please take it from me, as someone that has frequently engaged in active combat with some users like that and do things like that etc, and tried to make my voice heard about how I feel about it...

Please, just let it go.

If the wrong thing is said at the wrong time and the right/wrong person sees it and it offends the wrong person and friend of person etc.. it can lead to vacations. The length of which are 100% dependent on the circumstances.

Those that run things here are of the highest integrity and uniformity of standards, this is an admirable quality.. but, what I'm saying to you is.. please don't let that **** get to you because, I promise, that's exactly what they want. And once you're in the mud with them.. they win. Please think about this.

 

[Rand]

He does it constantly. I have thick skin just he is acted like I don’t know what I’m talking about and the yawn emojis make it sound like he is shutting me down. So therefore it is rude. I do know someone who works at the EPA and do have inside information from Toyota about the oil change intervals being strictly to get the car out of warranty. He doesn’t have that info because it’s inside.

so use ignore. I have had 23 people on ignore that used to trigger me here. I'm happier and so are the Mod(s).

He does it constantly. I have thick skin just he is acted like I don’t know what I’m talking about and the yawn emojis make it sound like he is shutting me down. So therefore it is rude. I do know someone who works at the EPA and do have inside information from Toyota about the oil change intervals being strictly to get the car out of warranty. He doesn’t have that info because it’s inside.

That just sounds like a kid. For one the EPA doesnt have any knowledge about why Toyota picked an OCI.. I might be "rude" to mention it, but you are not believable.

My advice back up cool down and use ignore on selected people.(even if its me).

 

[gregk24]

I would like that as well, but some armchair conclusions are inevitable
Time has taught us that some engines have design flaws that stretching the OCI aggravates

Low tension ring Toyota 2AZs clogged up if you took 0w20 to 10k intervals

Various GM engines (2.4 I4/3.6 V6) seem to have timing chains/tensioners that fail on a good day, stretching the OCI can aggravate it
Several Hyundai/Kia engines (Theta II/Nu) struggle to survive on a good day, and I'm watching more and more of them around me develop heavy oil consumption (1qt in 700-1200 mi)
Was piston soaks, and additional cleaning additives to solve oil consumption really this high on the agenda 10 years ago?

It's hard to say if limiting the OCI to 5k would've prevented or delayed these shortcomings from appearing?

I wonder sometimes

I believe the answer is yes, in many cases anyway. Prevented / delay is the key here. I'm not saying that a design flaw can be corrected by shortening OCI but when you look at examples of engines prone to certain failure modes and you take samples of those that were neglected and those that were over maintained you see trends develop. A prominent and well versed Toyota tech on YouTube shares his experience with the oil burning 2.5 and how much better these engines fair on a 5K OCI vs. a 10K (manufacturer recommended) OCI.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

No offense to AM but there is no way I believe Toyota of all brands would be doing anything at all to knowingly compromise their long term reliability. Their vehicles are so boring the reliability is the only reason to buy one, and they know it.

Not to mention, as I've posted before, they'll sell you a factory extended warranty for a lot less than the cost of a replacement engine.

 

[The Critic]

No offense to AM but there is no way I believe Toyota of all brands would be doing anything at all to knowingly compromise their long term reliability. Their vehicles are so boring the reliability is the only reason to buy one, and they know it.

Not to mention, as I've posted before, they'll sell you a factory extended warranty for a lot less than the cost of a replacement engine.

To be fair, if the only difference between 5K and 10K is developing oil consumption within the first 5/60k, OEMs could care less. According to owners manuals, maintaining oil level is an owner responsibility and the maximum allowed oil consumption is a pretty significant amount.

 

[Bill7]

I'm sure I'll get some snarky replies from some self-proclaimed experts (in b4) but I've been thinking lately.

I really wonder if we've reached a state of decline (dystopia?) in our commercial lubricants, where brands are no longer proudly formulating the best product for the consumer but rather, like everything else, focusing their efforts on pleasing the man in charge (government). From VOAs and UOAs it appears most (not all) products are coming in significantly weaker both in formulation and performance than in years' past, not due to choice, but due to necessity. When the environmentalists (and car manufacturers by proxy) are screaming for less emissions, you can only bend over so far before you're bottling coconut oil and telling people to reduce their OCIs.

Having joined Bob a decade or so ago, I remember the gold standard was pretty much a 10k change for synthetics, though some pushed it further, and OCD folks would not push as far. These days I'm not seeing nearly as many lengthy intervals, and one has to wonder, with these reduced service intervals due to (imo silly, and increasingly tight) environmental regulations, are we really doing the environment any good?

-J

I do 4k/6 month OCI's with a low priced group III full synthetic. I use solvent flushes during oil changes, and am preparing for a move to HPL PCMO for it's AN + Ester based cleaning. I think the biggest issue we face today is piston ring cleanliness.

The 10k OCI using any non Ester based oil seems to imply getting dirty oil control rings (on the pistons) after 100k miles in some vehicles, which can lead to oil burning at 1 quart every 1k miles, and groves in the cylinder walls due to the dirty stuck piston rings which can lead to an $8,000 partial engine replacement with a short block.

The general consensus is 5k/6 month OCI with any full synthetic is a safe choice. I've read on some forums about people getting sludge/varnish with the 5k OCI, so I chose 4k mile / 6 month OCI instead, so the oil isn't in the engine long enough to cause any new sludge/varnish.