2009 Lexus RX 350 3.5L 2GR FE piston slap/VVTI ticking

[kschachn]

I believe from what I have gathered and read across multiple Toyota and Lexus forums. The 2010 and newer RX 350's 2GRFE are spec'd specifically for 0W 20 possibly due to tighter ring landing clearances. What's speculative to me is whether the 2009 year was tooled abd fitted to operate in the 0W 20 range rather than the 5W30. Depending on where it was produced, assembled, and what time of the year in 2009. It has been suggested but not confirmed. Glad you are having a good experience though. I may consider that.

No they are not. No oil is too thick for an engine regardless of the clearances, an engine can be designed to tolerate lower viscosity oils but that in no way precludes the use of thicker ones.

The only time an oil is too thick is when the winter rating is inappropriate for the starting conditions and it gels in the presence of the pump pickup tube. In that case it cannot be pumped and the engine will fail due to oil starvation. Otherwise if it can be pumped it will lubricate.

If some oil was too thick for an engine at operating temperature imagine what any oil would do when cold.

 

[PWMDMD]

There are plenty of people driving around with this issue and they keep these going for 100,000’s of thousands of miles. But yeah, I see why you’d try to find a solution...it’d drive me a little crazy until I’d just accept it for what it is (an old car with a lot of miles on it).

This is exactly my point! So at 212k miles the OP has this “problem” that to our knowledge is causing no issues other than he doesn’t like the startup sound. If he drives another 100k or 200k miles how is this really a problem?

 

[Greasymechtech]

Any time anyone mentions clearances or tolerances, I will answer with "quote the factory service manual from differnent years and prove it".

Your engine is worn out ,and you live with the noise or rebuild it. It'll make that noise for a million more miles. Turn up the radio.

You blabbered incoherently too much in the original post.

I'd give the Mobil1 Delvac1 15w40 and Rotella T6 15w40 synthetics a run for the money. Use a quality filter like the Purolator Boss or Napa Platinum.

Never exceed 5000 miles on the OCI and keep driving.

 

[Robert Scalchi]

This is exactly my point! So at 212k miles the OP has this “problem” that to our knowledge is causing no issues other than he doesn’t like the startup sound. If he drives another 100k or 200k miles how is this really a problem?

Well here is my controversy. 1000's of people have this issue with no consequence other than startup noise. Because it is so common and mostly the majority without consequence. People disregard it and call it common or "Normal" INCLUDING TOTOYA AND LEXUS. BUT!...What about the people with this motor that experienced cam failure. Timing chain failures, locking pin failures, cam gear failures? You don't know when or if the VVTI is going to go? Or could be 50k or 250k. This is what the TSB's and owner feedback is for. This noise is due to oil starvation at startup. And any owner, manufacturer, or dealer trying to convince me that this is "normal" obviously has an agenda of not wanting to fix the issue, or foot the expense.

 

[PWMDMD]

Yes, if I ran Toyota I’d be reluctant to fix “a problem” for a guy driving a car with 212k miles that is currently not having any real problems other than a start up noise.

I’m not at all convinced this noise represents a real problem and failing engine components with +200k miles doesn’t count. All vehicles die from something yet we don’t expect all manufacturers to identify those issues well outside of warranty and engineer a million mile fix.

Forums select for people having problems. With the millions and millions of engines sold, how big is the problem? Not the noise problem, but true engine component failures DUE TO the noise? If you don’t know that...you don’t really know anything at all about this “problem”. You don’t even know if it really is a problem.

 

[PWMDMD]

Well here is my controversy. 1000's of people have this issue with no consequence other than startup noise. Because it is so common and mostly the majority without consequence. People disregard it and call it common or "Normal" INCLUDING TOTOYA AND LEXUS. BUT!...What about the people with this motor that experienced cam failure. Timing chain failures, locking pin failures, cam gear failures? You don't know when or if the VVTI is going to go? Or could be 50k or 250k. This is what the TSB's and owner feedback is for. This noise is due to oil starvation at startup. And any owner, manufacturer, or dealer trying to convince me that this is "normal" obviously has an agenda of not wanting to fix the issue, or foot the rxsoense

Ohhh!! Here we go! How many times do I have to say it!? 2GR FE Owners HAVE REPORTED THESE ISSUES FROM NEW OFF THE SHOWROOM FLOOR! Or didnt you read my post? Cam gear failures! Under 40k mi.
If Your not going to be helpful? Just get the hell off my thread already!

How many times do I have to say it...ALL components fail at every mileage on all engines. Just because there are a handful of whiners complaining about it doesn’t mean there’s a problem. If YOU don’t know the ACTUAL stats on failure then you’re talking out your butt and you have no clue if it’s really a problem. The fact is this engine is in TONS of vehicles and there are not wide spread reports of failure. Some reports yes, but that’s true for all engines and just about every moving component.

 

[Robert Scalchi]

How many times do I have to say it...ALL components fail at every mileage on all engines. Just because there are a handful of whiners complaining about it doesn’t mean there’s a problem. If YOU don’t know the ACTUAL stats on failure then you’re talking out your butt and you have no clue if it’s really a problem. The fact is this engine is in TONS of vehicles and there are not wide spread reports of failure. Some reports yes, but that’s true for all engines and just about every moving component.

I get what you are trying to say. Everything and every component fails due to wear and tear, heat expansion, contraction, mileage, neglect, abuse, poor workman ship, poor engineering, etc. If it falls out of warranty for that manufacturer and there are a limited number of reports...

If there were for example? 5 million 2GR FE motors built by Toyota for one production year across several models and manufactures, and say only 5000 of them failed? And failed out of warranty or over the warranty mileage? Its a wash! I get that. 5000 out of 5 million isn't that bad. And yes! All things fail with time. I get that!

But what happens when you have an engineering issue that affects say? 50,000 out of 5 million for that production year. What recourse do you have If several manufactures and their respective dealers don't stand by their product and reputation? What do you do when they allow it to continue?... FROM NEW! ACROSS MULTIPLE MODELS AND A WHOLE RANGE OF YEARS? Isn't that the point of TSB's and recalls? Isn't it the owners duty to document, diagnose, and complain. Otherwise not enough numbers of complaints get generated to take action.

Lets get this and my intentions straight. I don't expect anyone to do anything about this especially that I am way out of warranty. My vehicle has 212k from when I purchased it at 167,500 k from a year ago. Its a 12 year old vehicle. I don't expect it to perform "like new." I am simply trying to see if I can mitigate the situation by trying different oils with different additive packs, or different oil weights, just to see of it will quiet the situation and possibly have no consequence, and or possibly prolong or get as much out of the engine as possible. I've only had the vehicle a year, abd I am slowly becoming more aware of its quirks, despite it being boasted as a reliable engine. From the info I have gathered here and other forums. Its definitely a mechanical fix that has to be dealt with that no oil can solve.

I don't expect anyone to do anything about this other than myself or a qualified mechanic taking action.

Here are my sources related to all these issues. Its widely known. Well documented, and limited recalls have been issued on the matter.

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/2008-v6-2gr-fe-vvt-i-failure-help.108634/page-2

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/intake-cam-shaft-timing-gear-replacement-2-900.109370/page-2

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/2...ealer-wont-cover-damages-warning.88494/page-2

https://tuningpro.co/the-4-most-common-toyota-2gr-fe-engine-problems/

https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/2gr-fe-startup-clatter-experiment.608849/

https://carspecmn.com/toyota-and-lexus-v6-cold-start-engine-rattle-2gr3gr4gr/

https://www.toyotanation.com/thread...proximately-1-second-at-cold-start-up.634018/

https://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/55127-tsb0094_09-engine-knock-on-startup-2gr-fe/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-3-5-startup-noise-and-oil-weight.295905/

https://www.toymods.org.au/forums/t...-2GR-FE-V6-engone-cold-startup-rattling-noise

 

[PWMDMD]

I get what you are trying to say. Everything and every component fails due to wear and tear, heat expansion, contraction, mileage, neglect, abuse, poor workman ship, poor engineering, etc. If it falls out of warranty for that manufacturer and there are a limited number of reports...

If there were for example? 5 million 2GR FE motors built by Toyota for one production year across several models and manufactures, and say only 5000 of them failed? And failed out of warranty or over the warranty mileage? Its a wash! I get that. 5000 out of 5 million isn't that bad. And yes! All things fail with time. I get that!

But what happens when you have an engineering issue that affects say? 50,000 out of 5 million for that production year. What recourse do you have If several manufactures and their respective dealers don't stand by their product and reputation? What do you do when they allow it to continue?... FROM NEW! ACROSS MULTIPLE MODELS AND A WHOLE RANGE OF YEARS? Isn't that the point of TSB's and recalls? Isn't it the owners duty to document, diagnose, and complain. Otherwise not enough numbers of complaints get generated to take action.

Lets get this and my intentions straight. I don't expect anyone to do anything about this especially that I am way out of warranty. My vehicle has 212k from when I purchased it at 167,500 k from a year ago. Its a 12 year old vehicle. I don't expect it to perform "like new." I am simply trying to see if I can mitigate the situation by trying different oils with different additive packs, or different oil weights, just to see of it will quiet the situation and possibly have no consequence, and or possibly prolong or get as much out of the engine as possible. I've only had the vehicle a year, abd I am slowly becoming more aware of its quirks, despite it being boasted as a reliable engine. From the info I have gathered here and other forums. Its definitely a mechanical fix that has to be dealt with that no oil can solve.

I don't expect anyone to do anything about this other than myself or a qualified mechanic taking action.

Here are my sources related to all these issues. Its widely known. Well documented, and limited recalls have been issued on the matter.

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/2008-v6-2gr-fe-vvt-i-failure-help.108634/page-2

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/intake-cam-shaft-timing-gear-replacement-2-900.109370/page-2

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/2...ealer-wont-cover-damages-warning.88494/page-2

https://tuningpro.co/the-4-most-common-toyota-2gr-fe-engine-problems/

https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/2gr-fe-startup-clatter-experiment.608849/

https://carspecmn.com/toyota-and-lexus-v6-cold-start-engine-rattle-2gr3gr4gr/

https://www.toyotanation.com/thread...proximately-1-second-at-cold-start-up.634018/

https://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/55127-tsb0094_09-engine-knock-on-startup-2gr-fe/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/toyota-3-5-startup-noise-and-oil-weight.295905/

https://www.toymods.org.au/forums/t...-2GR-FE-V6-engone-cold-startup-rattling-noise

My ENTIRE POINT is you have NO idea what the actual numbers are for this issue and you can NOT extrapolate the actual numbers from various internet forums over the past 10 years. It's just not possible and yet you came in here claiming this was a wide-spread issue that Toyota refuses to fix and the truth is you don't even know if it's an issue at all. It's especially comical since your vehicle runs well, has six figures of mileage outside your ownership, and has not had anything fail.

Maybe this is an issue....maybe it's not...my point is YOU DON'T KNOW and you certainly haven't presented anything conclusively beyond sure, this engine is not perfect and it has some failures.

 

[kschachn]

And for the 878th time if there is a problem with the engine it’s not going to be fixed with an oil or an additive.

 

[ARB1977]

Try changing the vvt screens. Maybe plugged up.

 

[Astro14]

The points have been made. The OP has stopped listening.