HPL 5W40 testing complete (for now), all data etc. provided here

[TiGeo]

Thanks for sharing the data on here. I look forward to seeing the subsequent UOAs.

I'd expect to see some wonky stuff w/r to analytes with the repair but like the other work I've had done it will "flush out" over the next few changes.

 

[shortyb]

Good Luck TiGeo!

You kind of look like Chevy Chase

You should have seen him before the fire

 

[incognito_2u]

Great to see you investigating the root of your problem!l
”Numbers don’t lie!”
Question: You stated that part of your issue was caused by some residual fuel diluted oil remaining after an oil change. Were you able to determine the quantity of oil that remained?

 

[TiGeo]

Great to see you investigating the root of your problem!l
”Numbers don’t lie!”
Question: You stated that part of your issue was caused by some residual fuel diluted oil remaining after an oil change. Were you able to determine the quantity of oil that remained?

No...not sure how and at this point I have no interest in pursuing it.

 

[wpod]

Have you tried an approiate 10W-40 or 15W40 to note the differences.?

 

[TiGeo]

Have you tried an approiate 10W-40 or 15W40 to note the differences.?

No, no need now, I'm good with what I'm using (5W40) and it's doing what it needs to.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

So I’ve been running several different HPL oils for the last ~10 mos in my ’18 Golf Sportwagen (tuned, larger turbo, blah blah blah) over variable conditions including drag racing (40+ runs), normal daily driving which for me is a bit spirited, and a number of hooning mountain runs (Tail of the Dragon etc.). Unfortunately I didn’t get to test it at the track yet as the HPDE I had planned on attending back in March was cancelled due to snow but I will be attending two multi-day HPDEs before the end of year with HPL in the crank case, at least that's the plan.

Sitting sadly at the shop waiting for a new timing chain kit which should be done by early next week:

Thread on this issue can be found here:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/aluminum-flecks-in-oil-filter.358823/
View attachment 120013
View attachment 120022
The oils have been the current formulation of their 5W40 Euro oil, the previous formulation of this oil, and a custom blend of this oil that David had made for me to try. This has been over ~10K miles so 2 changes. Unfortunately due to a mechanical issue (timing chain tensioner…not lubrication related!!!) the third run of HPL oil I have in there now will be dumped next week with only about 500 miles on it; my shop will fill with Liquimoly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40 which is no issue; I’ll likely do a short OCI with that to flush anything else that may be in there out due to failure and go back to HPL Euro.

My goal was to see/test/check if the viscosity drop I see over my OCIs could be reduced using HPL products with higher quality base stocks and formulations. In the end, what I have going on in my car appears to be a bit of fuel dilution combined with a some small volume of oil remaining in the engine (that will be lower viscosity) after a change.

Here are my UOA and VOA data. David @High Performance Lubricants has been great to work with on this including running some split samples I sent him to look at BS’s results. To be transparent, to-date I have paid for the 12qts of Euro 5W40 oil used for this testing and I was given the 12 qts of custom oil to try with the arrangement of sharing data and samples to help with development. I also used a qt of the Engine Cleaner before switching to HPL at the ~73K change from the Liquimoly Molygen I was running; I ran the EC for about 2K miles prior to the oil change.

In the end, for me and how I use this car, I'm going to use the best I can put in it and will continue to run the HPL 5W40 Euro going forward...probalby start buying this stuff in larger containers with the new shipping deal he has!

Here is a key for the VOA/UOA data with dates/mileage:
View attachment 120014

VOAs –the first oil I tested on 2/13/22 was the custom formulation of their 5W40 Euro oil and the second on 8/24/22 was their revised formula; I didn’t do a VOA on other intermediate oil I had which was their standard Euro 5W40 (as of the first part of this year, formula has since changed) that I ran. The revision looks to have added some moly, has a higher TBN, and a higher 100C viscosity. Also note the Si values of ~10ppm which you will see in the UOAs….no…it’s not the high-flow air filter I run with my aftermarket intake.

VOAs:
View attachment 120018

UOAs – I did a lot of these b/c per convos with David, he suggested collecting samples after about ~500 miles as a baseline vs. comparing to the VOA. Additionally, I ran a short ~500 mile OCI as a “flush” oil to test the fuel dilution hypothesis and to see if there was older oil not being drained contributing to the drop in viscosity. This confirmed I am getting some fuel and likely a bit of old oil both contributing to the drop in viscosity to the 30W I always see at the end of an OCI vs. mechanical shearing that I was concerned about.

UOAs:
View attachment 120017
All oil changes since new UOA info:
View attachment 120019
Graph from above table for ending 100C viscosity and % drop vs. VOA:
View attachment 120015

All oil changes since new wear metals:
View attachment 120016

I'd expect to see some wonky stuff w/r to analytes with the repair but like the other work I've had done it will "flush out" over the next few changes.

Mr Fitz-Hume....... WTH? How on earth do you reallly use that wagon mild + wild yet you manage to keep your fun-machine so very clean under the hood? I was amazed at one of the underhood photos you shared. SWEET. Looks like new in there.

 

[TiGeo]

Mr Fitz-Hume....... WTH? How on earth do you reallly use that wagon mild + wild yet you manage to keep your fun-machine so very clean under the hood? I was amazed at one of the underhood photos you shared. SWEET. Looks like new in there.

Nothing fancy, just 1) don't live where we have much of a winter and 2) details man....details. I honestly just wipe it all down regularly is really all.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Nothing fancy, just 1) don't live where we have much of a winter and 2) details man....details. I honestly just wipe it all down regularly is really all.

yeah, I forget its a lot to do with where you live or drive too. wife has to park on gravel at work and I tell you it only takes
one day and the exterior is covered in dust and the engine bay stays full of dirt/dust etc.... from driving and parking.

 

[TiGeo]

yeah, I forget its a lot to do with where you live or drive too. wife has to park on gravel at work and I tell you it only takes
one day and the exterior is covered in dust and the engine bay stays full of dirt/dust etc.... from driving and parking.

I have a full-length splash-shield under vs. the short one it came with (just from a different VW...they are lego cars...so much interchangeability) and that also helps.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I have a full-length splash-shield under vs. the short one it came with (just from a different VW...they are lego cars...so much interchangeability) and that also helps.

What do you use to clean off the engine bayr? It is a bottle of XYZ and a tone of towels?

 

[TiGeo]

What do you use to clean off the engine bayr? It is a bottle of XYZ and a tone of towels?

Very little actually. A few times a year I'll spritz it off with water. I use compressed air sometimes. I wipe it off and use 303 on the plastic/hoses. It's really not hard to do this/keep an engine bay clean.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

I have a full-length splash-shield under vs. the short one it came with (just from a different VW...they are lego cars...so much interchangeability) and that also helps.

SWEET!
What helps this broke down grumpy old man - who cant do much for myself anymore.
We have one of those drive thru type car wash n wax places just blocks away from the house. Wife and I have always kept our cars garaged at all times possible and totally clean in and out. Neither of us can stand a dirty vehicle. I never even used to pull my boats home from fishing without stopping at car washes. I would clean n spray wax the boats , the motor and wash down the trailers too (even though I always had the galvanized trailers). Even the 4 wheel drive pick up/tow trucks or Bronco I pulled them with got it too before I put them in the garage or the shop in back of house. I know silly but as late as 2008 all my vehicles except Bronco had to have the chrome sports rims. Many times I was so wipped out after all of that after a long fishing trip , I have to put fish on ice to clean the next day once I recovered.
Now a days we decided its worth the $15 to $19 a month deal to be able to go thru the car wash/wax as many times a month as we need to. Just ran the wife's car thru on my way back from Doctor today. Only thing is that dont help me with under the hoods. Guess I will have to break out one of my old steam cleaners I used a lot in the past. We are both clean-freaks, among other things.

 

[Thumper3]

Hey, fellow VW fanatic here. LOL

Any details on exactly what the custom blend was? Ballpark on how much more it was than the normal HPL offerings? I've been trying various OTS options in the Golf R (obviously diff engine than yours but similar mods and usages) but to find a supplier willing to literally custom blend things..........marketing doesn't impress me much as I've been around too long but from what I've seen of HPL lurking for a while and seeing this, I am feeling swayed a bit.

 

[TiGeo]

Hey, fellow VW fanatic here. LOL

Any details on exactly what the custom blend was? Ballpark on how much more it was than the normal HPL offerings? I've been trying various OTS options in the Golf R (obviously diff engine than yours but similar mods and usages) but to find a supplier willing to literally custom blend things..........marketing doesn't impress me much as I've been around too long but from what I've seen of HPL lurking for a while and seeing this, I am feeling swayed a bit.

That product is available as their Euro 5W40 oil...easy!

 

[bjax67]

As a VW enthusiast myself, I’ve always lurked through your threads because of the amount on info you post. Looking through the UOA’s, I was always impressed with how well the LM Leichtlauf held up in your application. I too had a modded VW that led me down the path of looking at boutique oils. I had a MK6 GTI that I had APR tuned and installed a K04 turbo.

My main question is, with a car known to possibly have fuel dilation, have you used or thought about using an OA lab that has more accurate information in how they calculate fuel dilation?

 

[TiGeo]

As a VW enthusiast myself, I’ve always lurked through your threads because of the amount on info you post. Looking through the UOA’s, I was always impressed with how well the LM Leichtlauf held up in your application. I too had a modded VW that led me down the path of looking at boutique oils. I had a MK6 GTI that I had APR tuned and installed a K04 turbo.

My main question is, with a car known to possibly have fuel dilation, have you used or thought about using an OA lab that has more accurate information in how they calculate fuel dilation?

I have and at some point will motivate to send off one of my changes to a lab that can provide that. I agree folks here really talk down on the LM oils but the stuff works well and it has a proven track record with some race teams running VW TCR cars. I would have no issue continuing to rub it but was fun to try the HPL.

 

[bjax67]

I have and at some point will motivate to send off one of my changes to a lab that can provide that. I agree folks here really talk down on the LM oils but the stuff works well and it has a proven track record with some race teams running VW TCR cars. I would have no issue continuing to rub it but was fun to try the HPL.

If my B6 Passat was anything other than a stock daily, I’d consider switching to HPL. I’ve bought their engine cleaner and was really impressed with how well it worked.

 

[TiGeo]

If my B6 Passat was anything other than a stock daily, I’d consider switching to HPL. I’ve bought their engine cleaner and was really impressed with how well it worked.

I'm considering using HPL in my W8 Passat; already used the EC prior to the last change.

 

[Thumper3]

I have and at some point will motivate to send off one of my changes to a lab that can provide that. I agree folks here really talk down on the LM oils but the stuff works well and it has a proven track record with some race teams running VW TCR cars. I would have no issue continuing to rub it but was fun to try the HPL.

I ran the LM MolyGen in the Stg3 Golf R once, had really bad burn off (lost 1/2 quart after three 25 minute track sessions). Might have been a fluke, and I did have a small leak from the filter housing but no way 1/2 quart came out of it. On my 3rd OCI (short ones due to race car) with Amsoil MS and have not had it replicate before or after I replaced the housing assy.

Planning on running HPL at the next change.