agreed.
And it should be noted that the level of 'hysteria' around here over OCI's and OA's is a bit extreme.
And it should be noted that the level of 'hysteria' around here over OCI's and OA's is a bit extreme.
Amsoil SSO 18,200 miles 1 year 08 Acura TL 3.2
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Originally Posted By: c3po
This is not a love hate kind of thing, I see your statement as a smoking mirror kind of thing, like you are trying to divert us from Amsoil's limitations, that's just the way I see it.
Well, if you want to talk about the UOA ..then talk about it. If you want to continue with our side bar, say something about undisclosed shills with agendas.
What am I hiding about limitations? In fact, I think you only came in when I brought that up.
Still nothing from FZ1 about his industry affiliation (Y:N).
This is not a love hate kind of thing, I see your statement as a smoking mirror kind of thing, like you are trying to divert us from Amsoil's limitations, that's just the way I see it.
Well, if you want to talk about the UOA ..then talk about it. If you want to continue with our side bar, say something about undisclosed shills with agendas.
What am I hiding about limitations? In fact, I think you only came in when I brought that up.
Still nothing from FZ1 about his industry affiliation (Y:N).
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Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Gary, NY soccer Moms don't start their engines and run them 8 or more hours a day w/o turning them off. So while a soccer mom might complain that she's her kids cabby, she's anything but one.
The best thing in the world for an engine, or any oil for that matter is leaving an engine on. Its the on off and cool downs that kill them.
Then they're no different than soccer parents nationwide. There's nothing unique about NYC and the greater boroughs to make them distinctive other than the God given right to be miserable and treat other people like dirt (Ghost Busters
)
And I disagree with you basic premise. We've had UOA from the alleged errand/kid runner here and have seen little evidence that it severe other than the fuel to jockey around kids like you had a hot poker up your behind and were anxiety driven to get nowhere fast.
Gary, NY soccer Moms don't start their engines and run them 8 or more hours a day w/o turning them off. So while a soccer mom might complain that she's her kids cabby, she's anything but one.
The best thing in the world for an engine, or any oil for that matter is leaving an engine on. Its the on off and cool downs that kill them.
Then they're no different than soccer parents nationwide. There's nothing unique about NYC and the greater boroughs to make them distinctive other than the God given right to be miserable and treat other people like dirt (Ghost Busters
And I disagree with you basic premise. We've had UOA from the alleged errand/kid runner here and have seen little evidence that it severe other than the fuel to jockey around kids like you had a hot poker up your behind and were anxiety driven to get nowhere fast.
Go with what the evidence best supports. If people actually did do this and removed their opinions from posts (reference statements beginning with "I feel...", "It seems...", and "I believe...") we'd have a lot cleaner forum improving the signal to noise ratio. Not a fan of UOA? Fine, but don't expect a favorable response when one comes to a forum specifically for people who enjoy maximizing their oil's performance not only as a hobby/passion, but also for economic reasons. If somebody's car is worth more than the oil, how about a UOA that can detect poor filtration or a coolant leak? Change oil when it is done, and for that you need to monitor it.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: FZ1
O.K. You got that one wrong. Additional oil and filter changes at 6k and 12k are superior to 1 long 18k run. Not everyone in Texas is in the oil business,and,no,I am not in the oil business. I run my synthetic oil 6.5 months and 5.5 months 2x per year and about 4500 and 4000 miles,respectively. My oil seems done at about those time periods and I want fresh oil in my car beginning in the winter. I believe each car and driver combo is unique and don't believe in blanket statements re the miles an oil can be run,regardless of variables. I don't want to mess with a UOA. I'm sure there are some wear metals in the oil,so? Really,I think I am pretty middle of the road on my ideas vs. most drivers. I understand that my car is much more valuable than my oil.
.............................Think you sped by my previous response. Lol.
O.K. You got that one wrong. Additional oil and filter changes at 6k and 12k are superior to 1 long 18k run. Not everyone in Texas is in the oil business,and,no,I am not in the oil business. I run my synthetic oil 6.5 months and 5.5 months 2x per year and about 4500 and 4000 miles,respectively. My oil seems done at about those time periods and I want fresh oil in my car beginning in the winter. I believe each car and driver combo is unique and don't believe in blanket statements re the miles an oil can be run,regardless of variables. I don't want to mess with a UOA. I'm sure there are some wear metals in the oil,so? Really,I think I am pretty middle of the road on my ideas vs. most drivers. I understand that my car is much more valuable than my oil.
.............................Think you sped by my previous response. Lol.
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: FZ1
O.K. You got that one wrong. Additional oil and filter changes at 6k and 12k are superior to 1 long 18k run. Not everyone in Texas is in the oil business,and,no,I am not in the oil business. I run my synthetic oil 6.5 months and 5.5 months 2x per year and about 4500 and 4000 miles,respectively. My oil seems done at about those time periods and I want fresh oil in my car beginning in the winter. I believe each car and driver combo is unique and don't believe in blanket statements re the miles an oil can be run,regardless of variables. I don't want to mess with a UOA. I'm sure there are some wear metals in the oil,so? Really,I think I am pretty middle of the road on my ideas vs. most drivers. I understand that my car is much more valuable than my oil.
.............................Think you sped by my previous response. Lol.
Then explain why you want "others" to change their oil earlier EVERY TIME? At best you support the current level that they're at but (again, without fail) "no more!".
Why would you be so keen on "changing" other people with no more reason than you have some odd need to shorten everyone's OCI ..regardless of their results?
Cut the engine a break. 5k ..no more.
Be a sport and change it out!
Now if you're just some one man advocacy group of the Society for Abused and Neglected Engines (in)SANE, ..then fine. We've got a little USA network going here ..characters welcome.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
O.K. You got that one wrong. Additional oil and filter changes at 6k and 12k are superior to 1 long 18k run. Not everyone in Texas is in the oil business,and,no,I am not in the oil business. I run my synthetic oil 6.5 months and 5.5 months 2x per year and about 4500 and 4000 miles,respectively. My oil seems done at about those time periods and I want fresh oil in my car beginning in the winter. I believe each car and driver combo is unique and don't believe in blanket statements re the miles an oil can be run,regardless of variables. I don't want to mess with a UOA. I'm sure there are some wear metals in the oil,so? Really,I think I am pretty middle of the road on my ideas vs. most drivers. I understand that my car is much more valuable than my oil.
.............................Think you sped by my previous response. Lol.
Then explain why you want "others" to change their oil earlier EVERY TIME? At best you support the current level that they're at but (again, without fail) "no more!".
Why would you be so keen on "changing" other people with no more reason than you have some odd need to shorten everyone's OCI ..regardless of their results?
Cut the engine a break. 5k ..no more.
Be a sport and change it out!
Now if you're just some one man advocacy group of the Society for Abused and Neglected Engines (in)SANE, ..then fine. We've got a little USA network going here ..characters welcome.
Scratch out Patman, insert Gary.
Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
GaryPatman your are missing it entirely.
FZ1 is right! If we simply take the cost of the UOA and spend it for an oil change we could eliminate this entire portion of the board and his post count would be 2.
We could simply change our oil at 3 months or 3000 miles.
Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Gary
FZ1 is right! If we simply take the cost of the UOA and spend it for an oil change we could eliminate this entire portion of the board and his post count would be 2.
We could simply change our oil at 3 months or 3000 miles.
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Think of the server time saved!
I've always liked FZ1's conservative comments on UOA. It helps balance those aggressive comments like:
"are you stupid??... why did you change that awesome syn oil soooo early?!"
or
"what a giant waste of syn oil.. you could have run it 4 times longer"..
or
"there goes another example of wasting money on syn oil" etc, etc.
I think it's just a perspective, and has nothing to do with corporate/financial gain. A perspective that I tend to agree with more often than not, and so do most manufacturers if we took the time to read the manuals they provide.
"are you stupid??... why did you change that awesome syn oil soooo early?!"
or
"what a giant waste of syn oil.. you could have run it 4 times longer"..
or
"there goes another example of wasting money on syn oil" etc, etc.
I think it's just a perspective, and has nothing to do with corporate/financial gain. A perspective that I tend to agree with more often than not, and so do most manufacturers if we took the time to read the manuals they provide.
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(more)
That's fine. Be as conservative as you please. You should have more than feelings or "-isms" to support your assertions.
"oil is cheap" is a lame excuse. Waste is waste. To desire to engage in it is a choice ..and a poor one ..but you're the one bearing the folly of it ..so have at it.
This doesn't mean that you form along the typical polarized idiocy of "if yur ain wid us, yur agin us" horse emissions. You can surely not believe in extended drains ..while not heading in the other direction.
So ..be as conservative as you please ..for yourself. If you're "anti" something, pony up with sensible reasons and not some geezer sound bite slogan.
Otherwise, "If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings" is something you may think about.
Things like:
"good for you, but I'm gutless"
"attaboy ..I'm too scared ..even with evidence to the contrary"
"anxiety would overwhelm me"
or
"I've determined that extended drains don't fit into my maintenance habits"
"The cost analysis showed that I gain nothing with extended drains"
That's fine. Be as conservative as you please. You should have more than feelings or "-isms" to support your assertions.
"oil is cheap" is a lame excuse. Waste is waste. To desire to engage in it is a choice ..and a poor one ..but you're the one bearing the folly of it ..so have at it.
This doesn't mean that you form along the typical polarized idiocy of "if yur ain wid us, yur agin us" horse emissions. You can surely not believe in extended drains ..while not heading in the other direction.
So ..be as conservative as you please ..for yourself. If you're "anti" something, pony up with sensible reasons and not some geezer sound bite slogan.
Otherwise, "If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings" is something you may think about.
Things like:
"good for you, but I'm gutless"
"attaboy ..I'm too scared ..even with evidence to the contrary"
"anxiety would overwhelm me"
or
"I've determined that extended drains don't fit into my maintenance habits"
"The cost analysis showed that I gain nothing with extended drains"
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
(more)
That's fine. Be as conservative as you please. You should have more than feelings or "-isms" to support your assertions.
"oil is cheap" is a lame excuse. Waste is waste. To desire to engage in it is a choice ..and a poor one ..but you're the one bearing the folly of it ..so have at it.
This doesn't mean that you form along the typical polarized idiocy of "if yur ain wid us, yur agin us" horse emissions. You can surely not believe in extended drains ..while not heading in the other direction.
So ..be as conservative as you please ..for yourself. If you're "anti" something, pony up with sensible reasons and not some geezer sound bite slogan.
Otherwise, "If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings" is something you may think about.
Things like:
"good for you, but I'm gutless"
"attaboy ..I'm too scared ..even with evidence to the contrary"
"anxiety would overwhelm me"
or
"I've determined that extended drains don't fit into my maintenance habits"
"The cost analysis showed that I gain nothing with extended drains"
Or
"I like to follow the recommendations of the manufacturer and do *not* extend drains at the expense of clashing with my warranty on a 30k car for a couple dollars a year and a few 30 minute sessions of my time.. regardless of how long I could actually run an oil out to!"
Out of warranty, you have a point Gary! Inside warranty, FZ1's perspective jives with the manufacturer. In fact, I've seen him recommend intervals higher than the manufacturer when an interval goes way beyond it, so he could be even *more* conservative I suppose
But this is coming from a guy in Canada that follows Subaru's 3750 mile (6k km) OCI. Now that's conservative!!
(more)
That's fine. Be as conservative as you please. You should have more than feelings or "-isms" to support your assertions.
"oil is cheap" is a lame excuse. Waste is waste. To desire to engage in it is a choice ..and a poor one ..but you're the one bearing the folly of it ..so have at it.
This doesn't mean that you form along the typical polarized idiocy of "if yur ain wid us, yur agin us" horse emissions. You can surely not believe in extended drains ..while not heading in the other direction.
So ..be as conservative as you please ..for yourself. If you're "anti" something, pony up with sensible reasons and not some geezer sound bite slogan.
Otherwise, "If man were meant to fly, he'd have wings" is something you may think about.
Things like:
"good for you, but I'm gutless"
"attaboy ..I'm too scared ..even with evidence to the contrary"
"anxiety would overwhelm me"
or
"I've determined that extended drains don't fit into my maintenance habits"
"The cost analysis showed that I gain nothing with extended drains"
Or
"I like to follow the recommendations of the manufacturer and do *not* extend drains at the expense of clashing with my warranty on a 30k car for a couple dollars a year and a few 30 minute sessions of my time.. regardless of how long I could actually run an oil out to!"
Out of warranty, you have a point Gary! Inside warranty, FZ1's perspective jives with the manufacturer. In fact, I've seen him recommend intervals higher than the manufacturer when an interval goes way beyond it, so he could be even *more* conservative I suppose
But this is coming from a guy in Canada that follows Subaru's 3750 mile (6k km) OCI. Now that's conservative!!
Right. Quite foolish to endanger your warranty because of an extended oil change. I let the dealer do all the maintenance,including oil changes, on my equipment as per the MFG. schedule till the warranty is up. Then,I let the dealer perform the maintenance on my schedule. I let the dealer do all the work,that I don't personally perform, to garner goodwill. They know who I am when I bring my Accord in, and that can help you,if something goes wrong. Goodwill can help,even when you are outside of the warranty period.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Gary, NY soccer Moms don't start their engines and run them 8 or more hours a day w/o turning them off. So while a soccer mom might complain that she's her kids cabby, she's anything but one.
The best thing in the world for an engine, or any oil for that matter is leaving an engine on. Its the on off and cool downs that kill them.
Then they're no different than soccer parents nationwide. There's nothing unique about NYC and the greater boroughs to make them distinctive other than the God given right to be miserable and treat other people like dirt (Ghost Busters
)
And I disagree with you basic premise. We've had UOA from the alleged errand/kid runner here and have seen little evidence that it severe other than the fuel to jockey around kids like you had a hot poker up your behind and were anxiety driven to get nowhere fast.
So about a 15 mile drive from City Field to my house today took a little over an hour is not considered severe and hard on oil? 90*F A/C blasting. That is a typical daily short commute for a lot of people, this BTW was at 3:00 in the afternoon. 4:30 might have added another 30-60 minutes to that trip. I bet a year of that on SSO, or any oil would look like trash, in a UOA and I wouldn't take the risk. Team that up with the soccer mom use and I wouldn't want that oil in my sump for a year.
BTW this is not product bashing, but until people have lived and driven under these circumstances and maintained vehicles used for it, I don't think they really understand. The guy dumping his oil every 6 months is going to have a cleaner better running engine after a few years of that than the guy doing the 1 year OCI. I think most people would agree. Opinions vary, that's mine.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Gary, NY soccer Moms don't start their engines and run them 8 or more hours a day w/o turning them off. So while a soccer mom might complain that she's her kids cabby, she's anything but one.
The best thing in the world for an engine, or any oil for that matter is leaving an engine on. Its the on off and cool downs that kill them.
Then they're no different than soccer parents nationwide. There's nothing unique about NYC and the greater boroughs to make them distinctive other than the God given right to be miserable and treat other people like dirt (Ghost Busters
And I disagree with you basic premise. We've had UOA from the alleged errand/kid runner here and have seen little evidence that it severe other than the fuel to jockey around kids like you had a hot poker up your behind and were anxiety driven to get nowhere fast.
So about a 15 mile drive from City Field to my house today took a little over an hour is not considered severe and hard on oil? 90*F A/C blasting. That is a typical daily short commute for a lot of people, this BTW was at 3:00 in the afternoon. 4:30 might have added another 30-60 minutes to that trip. I bet a year of that on SSO, or any oil would look like trash, in a UOA and I wouldn't take the risk. Team that up with the soccer mom use and I wouldn't want that oil in my sump for a year.
BTW this is not product bashing, but until people have lived and driven under these circumstances and maintained vehicles used for it, I don't think they really understand. The guy dumping his oil every 6 months is going to have a cleaner better running engine after a few years of that than the guy doing the 1 year OCI. I think most people would agree. Opinions vary, that's mine.
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Quote:
So about a 15 mile drive from City Field to my house today took a little over an hour is not considered severe and hard on oil? 90*F A/C blasting.
Then it's not your typical soccer parent and is simply a vehicle operated 2 hours at a clip. Not sever at all with the exception that 2hours for most means a 80+ mile trip ..while this one to 15 miles. Compare the fuel consumed between the two to approximate the "use" difference.
You've got this "GRULLING" and "BRUTAL" impression on the service. It's just "usage" that is left un-tallied by the odometer.
Now the TRANS, there I would mostly agree. It would see more shifts in those 15 miles than the other unit would in (probably) 25 of the typical 2hr event.
So about a 15 mile drive from City Field to my house today took a little over an hour is not considered severe and hard on oil? 90*F A/C blasting.
Then it's not your typical soccer parent and is simply a vehicle operated 2 hours at a clip. Not sever at all with the exception that 2hours for most means a 80+ mile trip ..while this one to 15 miles. Compare the fuel consumed between the two to approximate the "use" difference.
You've got this "GRULLING" and "BRUTAL" impression on the service. It's just "usage" that is left un-tallied by the odometer.
Now the TRANS, there I would mostly agree. It would see more shifts in those 15 miles than the other unit would in (probably) 25 of the typical 2hr event.
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Quote:
Right. Quite foolish to endanger your warranty because of an extended oil change.
..and about those times where you've seen nothing wrong with the UOA and still suggest the severe schedule when there's NOTHING to warrant it ...saying "be smart, 5k ..think of your warranty"? What about those instances?
Are you suggesting that you're almost exclusive, one dimensional rant/slant/"evangel" is out of some warranty paranoia?
If so, then why are you "just now" promoting this notion of agency service and "goodwill"? You could just as easily be saying "take it to the dealer- think of your warrany!!" ..over and over..and over again ..instead of what you do ..over and over ..and over again..since it has (pretty much) little to do with sensible oil change intervals (proven where the oil is suitable for that usage) and more about fear of having something go wrong and being (allegedly) "at risk".
Two totally different takes on it.
So, I guess you REALLY mean that warranty fears must govern your behaviors ..even to the point of over maintaining to assure their integrity.
You have much statistical evidence to support this method?
Right. Quite foolish to endanger your warranty because of an extended oil change.
..and about those times where you've seen nothing wrong with the UOA and still suggest the severe schedule when there's NOTHING to warrant it ...saying "be smart, 5k ..think of your warranty"? What about those instances?
Are you suggesting that you're almost exclusive, one dimensional rant/slant/"evangel" is out of some warranty paranoia?
If so, then why are you "just now" promoting this notion of agency service and "goodwill"? You could just as easily be saying "take it to the dealer- think of your warrany!!" ..over and over..and over again ..instead of what you do ..over and over ..and over again..since it has (pretty much) little to do with sensible oil change intervals (proven where the oil is suitable for that usage) and more about fear of having something go wrong and being (allegedly) "at risk".
Two totally different takes on it.
So, I guess you REALLY mean that warranty fears must govern your behaviors ..even to the point of over maintaining to assure their integrity.
You have much statistical evidence to support this method?
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Right. Quite foolish to endanger your warranty because of an extended oil change. I let the dealer do all the maintenance,including oil changes, on my equipment as per the MFG. schedule till the warranty is up. Then,I let the dealer perform the maintenance on my schedule. I let the dealer do all the work,that I don't personally perform, to garner goodwill. They know who I am when I bring my Accord in, and that can help you,if something goes wrong. Goodwill can help,even when you are outside of the warranty period.
.............I think my previous post,above, presents my position,on these issues. Perhaps you should,again, read it.
Right. Quite foolish to endanger your warranty because of an extended oil change. I let the dealer do all the maintenance,including oil changes, on my equipment as per the MFG. schedule till the warranty is up. Then,I let the dealer perform the maintenance on my schedule. I let the dealer do all the work,that I don't personally perform, to garner goodwill. They know who I am when I bring my Accord in, and that can help you,if something goes wrong. Goodwill can help,even when you are outside of the warranty period.
.............I think my previous post,above, presents my position,on these issues. Perhaps you should,again, read it.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
So about a 15 mile drive from City Field to my house today took a little over an hour is not considered severe and hard on oil? 90*F A/C blasting.
Then it's not your typical soccer parent and is simply a vehicle operated 2 hours at a clip. Not sever at all with the exception that 2hours for most means a 80+ mile trip ..while this one to 15 miles. Compare the fuel consumed between the two to approximate the "use" difference.
You've got this "GRULLING" and "BRUTAL" impression on the service. It's just "usage" that is left un-tallied by the odometer.
Now the TRANS, there I would mostly agree. It would see more shifts in those 15 miles than the other unit would in (probably) 25 of the typical 2hr event.
The car sees soccer mom use too. Two hour 80+ mile trip is better for a car and the oil than a 2 hour 15 mile trip. Forget about brake wear or tranny wear, lets talk engines.
Lets take this example, 2 identical cars, identical in every way, including use, making identical trips. One person uses SSO and changes the oil once a year, car driven 15 miles during the morning taking half an hour to get to work, home trip 15 miles 90 minutes. Then another 100 miles of soccer mom use during the week and weekends. First car sees SSO changed once a year, with an Amsoil filter, second car uses M1, or PP with a Mobil 1 filter changed every 6 months. Which car would you buy? I'm pretty sure the car seeing that kind of use with two OCI's a year has a cleaner less worn engine 5 years down the road, by 10 years no comparison.
If most people put their brand loyalty aside they'd take the car with two OCI's a year in this example. Cost wouldn't be much more either if you shop sales.
Quote:
So about a 15 mile drive from City Field to my house today took a little over an hour is not considered severe and hard on oil? 90*F A/C blasting.
Then it's not your typical soccer parent and is simply a vehicle operated 2 hours at a clip. Not sever at all with the exception that 2hours for most means a 80+ mile trip ..while this one to 15 miles. Compare the fuel consumed between the two to approximate the "use" difference.
You've got this "GRULLING" and "BRUTAL" impression on the service. It's just "usage" that is left un-tallied by the odometer.
Now the TRANS, there I would mostly agree. It would see more shifts in those 15 miles than the other unit would in (probably) 25 of the typical 2hr event.
The car sees soccer mom use too. Two hour 80+ mile trip is better for a car and the oil than a 2 hour 15 mile trip. Forget about brake wear or tranny wear, lets talk engines.
Lets take this example, 2 identical cars, identical in every way, including use, making identical trips. One person uses SSO and changes the oil once a year, car driven 15 miles during the morning taking half an hour to get to work, home trip 15 miles 90 minutes. Then another 100 miles of soccer mom use during the week and weekends. First car sees SSO changed once a year, with an Amsoil filter, second car uses M1, or PP with a Mobil 1 filter changed every 6 months. Which car would you buy? I'm pretty sure the car seeing that kind of use with two OCI's a year has a cleaner less worn engine 5 years down the road, by 10 years no comparison.
If most people put their brand loyalty aside they'd take the car with two OCI's a year in this example. Cost wouldn't be much more either if you shop sales.
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Quote:
Two hour 80+ mile trip is better for a car and the oil than a 2 hour 15 mile trip.
How so? I want you to really think about it. How do taxis get 400k. Do you think 3000/3m is REALLY like 3000 miles with the fuel used?
Now if you're saying that the engine ages at 5X the rate, that's not a function of the oil, it's a function of how much fuel (work) the engine did.
Taxi service is easy on engines and oil. It's not severe in the least bit. Virtually no load and one warm up state for 2hour of operation. Most daily drivers in normal situations, on average, have 4 -6 warm up states over the same hours of operation ..same amount of fuel processed.
..and those startup/warmup events account for 90% of the unavoidable wear ..as defined by SAE and exploited by our beloved Castrol
Two hour 80+ mile trip is better for a car and the oil than a 2 hour 15 mile trip.
How so? I want you to really think about it. How do taxis get 400k. Do you think 3000/3m is REALLY like 3000 miles with the fuel used?
Now if you're saying that the engine ages at 5X the rate, that's not a function of the oil, it's a function of how much fuel (work) the engine did.
Taxi service is easy on engines and oil. It's not severe in the least bit. Virtually no load and one warm up state for 2hour of operation. Most daily drivers in normal situations, on average, have 4 -6 warm up states over the same hours of operation ..same amount of fuel processed.
..and those startup/warmup events account for 90% of the unavoidable wear ..as defined by SAE and exploited by our beloved Castrol
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