Amsoil SS 0W-20 vs Schaeffer’s 0W-20 & filter in Honda 2.0L

[bhvrdr]

It would be more relevant if grade recommendations in the manual were based on technical criteria and requirements, which unfortunately they are not. It’s the crux of the problem in any discussion.

I agree with you in many respects that there are probably multiple factors involved in oil recommendations.

Certainly engineering aspects play a role and a pretty significant one in discussions that I routinely have with manufacturing engineers as well as engineers from mobil 1.

But I have a feeling what you're getting at is the "other factors" such as country regulations (CAFE etc), business agreements (putting a product name on the oil fill ala Porsche and Ferrari does or putting a product name in the manual like Chevrolet Corvette and Porsche and Ferrari and others do) etc etc.

Still I don't think you can go wrong with contacting the OEM themselves to make sure you are doing the right thing.

Often times there are very good engineering reasons why the manuals differ from country to country. I certainly didn't mean to suggest that's always the case but I wouldn't want to guess.

 

[tolian21]

Still I don't think you can go wrong with contacting the OEM themselves to make sure you are doing the right thing.

I have yet to see anyone being able to get any useful information about this. The best case scenario you will talk to some call support center that will repeat scripted statement to follow all the recommendations and requirements in the owner’s manual. If Honda would be so strict about 0w20, there would be completely different language in the manual. At minimum, they would not use word “recommend” and not say to use proper viscosity for the ambient temperature.

 

[userfriendly]

When you say yes are you now agreeing that yes fuel chemistry differences are significant between the United States and other countries?

Meaning you do know that there are different percentage of methanol ethanol as well as different additive packs used in different countries right?

I just want to be clear before we move on to the next topic that you now understand this?

We can then move on to how oil grades can differ in formulation (chemistry) as well but before that let's just make sure that we have this buttoned up.

What's the "next topic", viscosity vs engine size?
Do larger engines need thicker oil?

 

[bhvrdr]

I have yet to see anyone being able to get any useful information about this. The best case scenario you will talk to some call support center that will repeat scripted statement to follow all the recommendations and requirements in the owner’s manual. If Honda would be so strict about 0w20, there would be completely different language in the manual. At minimum, they would not use word “recommend” and not say to use proper viscosity for the ambient temperature.

It's not always easy. For the non enthusiast I always recommend you request your question be forwarded to engineering. This sometimes works.

For enthusiasts or those in the industry there are other ways. I regularly meet with OEM engineers. In the past 3 months I've met with Tadge Juechter and Joshua Holder...one is the single lead engineer for all Corvette engineering and one the head of all powertrain engineers. It may seem like you have to have some kind of special "in" but that's not always the case. Many of these opportunities to meet with engineers from companies from Michelin to Mobil 1 to Audi to Chevrolet came about from racing. If you know anybody involved you can always ask them to ask the engineers whatever questions you have.

As an example whenever I get one-on-one time with these engineers I often get people sending me messages about questions they want me to ask them and I will. Often times these many interviews are even filmed and then we will post them to YouTube so now the entire community can benefit from that knowledge.

I'll admit I don't have a lot of experience with Honda except for calibrating with Hondata on a couple of race cars but I'm sure their engineers are meeting routinely wherever they race and somebody is getting significant one-on-one time with them.

Here's an example of an open one...

 

[bhvrdr]

What's the "next topic", viscosity vs engine size?
Do larger engines need thicker oil?

You'd have to go back and read his posts. I believe he had one question uncertain that fuel chemistry significantly varies from country to country. I believe then he had another question about how fuel chemistry can impact a viscosity recommendation which has already been touched on now.

 

[userfriendly]

You'd have to go back and read his posts. I believe he had one question uncertain that fuel chemistry significantly varies from country to country. I believe then he had another question about how fuel chemistry can impact a viscosity recommendation which has already been touched on now.

Yes, and you have been called out by everyone that posted on this topic to provide proof that fuel chemistry impacts engine oil viscosity.
So far all you have posted is "contact the manufacture".
I'm calling your bluff.

 

[tolian21]

I'll admit I don't have a lot of experience with Honda except for calibrating with Hondata on a couple of race cars but I'm sure their engineers are meeting routinely wherever they race and somebody is getting significant one-on-one time with them

What do these engineers say about fuel dilution that drops viscosity from 0w30 to 0w20 in Honda engines, do they still want to run 0w20?

 

[bhvrdr]

Yes, and you have been called out by everyone that posted on this topic to provide proof that fuel chemistry impacts engine oil viscosity.
So far all you have posted is "contact the manufacture".
I'm calling your bluff.

"Called out". Yikes. "Bluff".

Let's all be collegial here and simply ask questions and learn more.

I didn't know I was being called out and I had no idea I was bluffing so maybe I wasn't being as clear as I should have been and I apologize if some of the information I put out wasn't received.

You can literally Google fuel chemistry differences between countries and receive more than enough information about ethanol content per country and methanol content per country as well as additives that are different from country to country but if you are feeling that information is not accurate I would be glad to post you the links with proof of that. Please let me know if that was what you considered my bluff.

I then presented a peer reviewed study about the interaction between Fuel chemistry and oil and how it impacts engine performance and wear.

Here's more...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0016236118308858

AMF

Information on advanced motor fuels and powertrains. Details about the IEA´s Advanced Motor Fuels Implementing Agreement.

www.iea-amf.org

https://www.jstor.org/stable/44467405

Wear studies on an automotive gasoline engine using methanol gasoline blends. A study of the effects of variables (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

Numerical Analysis of Low Speed Pre-Ignition and Knock Process in Downsized Turbocharged Direct Injection Engines with Ethanol-Gasoline Blends - International Journal of Automotive Technology

The feasibility of the calculation model and calculation methods is verified by engine bench test and visual rapid compression machine (RCM) test as reported in this paper. Using AVL software FIRE, the processes of low speed preignition (LSPI) and super knock triggered by the oil particles have...

link.springer.com

https://www.jstor.org/stable/26273893

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1687814018808684

The Effects of Crankcase Oil Viscosity on Engine Friction at Low Temperatures

With Euro III emissions standards requiring a 50% reduction in current diesel car emissions from January 1st 2000, there is a need to improve fuel consumption and thus reduce exhaust emissions. One of the ways this is being addressed is by the introduction of lower viscosity crankcase oils and

www.sae.org

There are many more.

I just assumed that people would recognize that since we know fuel chemistry varies by country significantly....

And we know the interaction between Fuel chemistry and oil chemistry impacts engine performance and wear...

... there wouldn't really be an argument that oil recommendations can be specific to fuel chemistry. And by definition This is pretty simple stuff right?

 

[demarpaint]

Given that choice, Amsoil.

 

[M56959]

Enough.

If you can't give cogent explanations for the statements you make don't derail topics to bloviate about theories. Thats trolling.