0W-16 Strength & Durability

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Shel_B

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The HTHS of 0W-16 (and thinner) oil is below what is generally considered the minimum needed for reasonable engine protection. I think the minimum HTHS for good protection is considered to be around 2.6, and the 0W-16 oils are around 2.3 (and please correct me if I'm mistaken).

What techniques, additives, and base stocks are needed for such a thin oil to provide adequate engine protection over a wide variety of conditions and a period of many years? What elements of engine design are important to help the oil do its job? How is oil dilution dealt with? Seemingly, 0W-16 is doing an acceptable job for some engines. How do they do it?
 
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Astro14

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Shel, HTHS is measured at 150C. It’s a great data point if that oil is going to be run on the autobahn, or pushed hard in a high performance engine. But in a Camry? Driven to the grocery store? The oil won’t ever see that temperature. Further, the relationship between temperature and viscosity isn’t strictly linear, or consistent across oils. So, a particular HTHS measurement might lead to different viscosities at 100C, or 40C.

So, the real question is: what’s your oil temp, and how does your specified oil do at that temp?

I think you’ll find, for most engines, and their oil temperature, the 0W16 is good enough.
 

Shel_B

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Shel, HTHS is measured at 150C. It’s a great data point if that oil is going to be run on the autobahn, or pushed hard in a high performance engine. But in a Camry? Driven to the grocery store? The oil won’t ever see that temperature.

So, the real question is: what’s your oil temp, and how does your specified oil do at that temp?

I think you’ll find, for most engines, and their oil temperature, the 0W16 is good enough.
Well, I'm not really discussing my Camry, rather, I'm interested in the details of how the oil is designed so that it provides adequate protection.

That said, your assertion that the oil is "good enough" for most engines suggests that there are limitations for such a thin oil (as there are, of course, for many, if not all, oils). So, moving back to the Camry (and similarly designed engines) would a 0W-16 be stretched too thin for a long, high-speed run under some loads and conditions? What in the design of the oil would help it protect under more extreme use than getting groceries? Am I mistaken that an oil has to be designed for more than a run to the corner 7Eleven?
 
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It was designed the same way 0w20 was when 5w30 was most popular. The issue with your thinking is that you have a base opinion that a thinner oil cannot protect as well as a thicker one. Made clear by your wording.

Understand that the actual R&D process for a new oil weight is much more complex than most of us understand. They don't simply mix it up and slap a label on it.
 

Shel_B

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It was designed the same way 0w20 was when 5w30 was most popular. The issue with your thinking is that you have a base opinion that a thinner oil cannot protect as well as a thicker one. Made clear by your wording.

Understand that the actual R&D process for a new oil weight is much more complex than most of us understand. They don't simply mix it up and slap a label on it.
You're a stitch. I'm interested in learning how so thin an oil can afford good protection. What are the design parameters that make it work? I asked about what makes a 0W-16 protect as well as it does.

Some engineers sat down and said, look, we need a thin oil for fuel economy, but it's got to be strong enough to do the job demanded of it. What additives can we use, what base stocks might be ideal, how do we rethink oil so that a thin oil can go the distance in a variety of vehicles under widely varying conditions?

You chose not to answer the question, or perhaps you're unable to do so. That's fine. Not all of us fully understand how oil is developed and how it works. Instead, you decided to tell me what I was thinking. You decided what my opinion of thin oil is without my ever saying anything to that effect. A better approach might have been to ask what I was thinking, ask for clarification. Read what I said:

"What techniques, additives, and base stocks are needed for such a thin oil to provide adequate engine protection over a wide variety of conditions and a period of many years? What elements of engine design are important to help the oil do its job? How is oil dilution dealt with? Seemingly, 0W-16 is doing an acceptable job for some engines. How do they do it?"
 
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I didn't answer you question because the only person that can is someone who works for an oil manufacturer in the R&D department. Beyond that every post here will be some level of assumption or speculation.

Let me ask you a question. How different do you believe 0w20 and 0w16 are?
 

Astro14

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Well, I'm not really discussing my Camry, rather, I'm interested in the details of how the oil is designed so that it provides adequate protection.

That said, your assertion that the oil is "good enough" for most engines suggests that there are limitations for such a thin oil (as there are, of course, for many, if not all, oils). So, moving back to the Camry (and similarly designed engines) would a 0W-16 be stretched too thin for a long, high-speed run under some loads and conditions? What in the design of the oil would help it protect under more extreme use than getting groceries? Am I mistaken that an oil has to be designed for more than a run to the corner 7Eleven?
You're asking the question without context, and you're focused on viscosity alone, which is only one measure of performance.

Sure, 0W16, depending on specification, is good enough for the cars that specify a 0W16. I doubt Toyota has a HTHS requirement for their Genuine Toyota Motor Oil in 0W16 that their new cars specify.

But there are many specifications, and certifications, beyond the simple viscosity grade. For example, Porsche A40, or MB 229.51. There are many cars that require a different grade than 0W16, and some of the certifications have a minimum HTHS.

I would not put a 0W16 in a car that requires an A3/B4, or an MB 229.5. The oil would not meet the required performance parameters in those cars.

Not every oil works in every car, and there is far more to an oil than mere viscosity. You cannot extrapolate from one oil to another, nor from one engine to another.

But, to answer your question, if your car specifies a 0W16, then, that oil protects that engine well enough.
 

4WD

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This is not the old days. Things change and engines and oil are not excluded from that.

“Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the man come and take you away”
That doesn’t mean they are not out to get me … 0W16 and all … 😷
 
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I found this gem from 2008. Only difference the HTHS concern was for 0w20 oils.

 
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