0W-16 Oil....... Really ??

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Our local Wal-Mart is only 1.5 miles from our house. On these 40 degree Winter mornings it takes about 2 to 3 minutes to get there. (Less if we get the green light on the corner). Hardly enough time for a proper warm up. So.... Should I go with the drag race boys, and fill my cold crankcase with 0W-8?.... Or... Stick with Toyota's much thicker mandate of 0W-16, and be properly protected when the engine reaches operating temperature?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Our local Wal-Mart is only 1.5 miles from our house. On these 40 degree Winter mornings it takes about 2 to 3 minutes to get there. (Less if we get the green light on the corner). Hardly enough time for a proper warm up. So.... Should I go with the drag race boys, and fill my cold crankcase with 0W-8?.... Or... Stick with Toyota's much thicker mandate of 0W-16, and be properly protected when the engine reaches operating temperature?


My concern would be summer heat and traffic. Those are the worst commutes for me. I like to match the oil to the worst driving conditions I see. I'm still not a fan of one size fits all.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Viscosity keeps bearings apart, and your bearings will stay apart...the entire duration of your experience...all 18-25 seconds of it (see, no major heat) Do the same with "0W8" same result.


So..... Because there is no heat generated in street stock class drag racing, (or in driving from the pits to the staging lanes, the burnout, the back up, and everything else). And because through all of that my engine will obviously stay cold, it makes no difference.

In that case I won't bother to change it out, and just go with the much thicker 0W-16 that Toyota mandates in the first place. And thereby retain all that better bearing protection for the long strenuous drive home with the A/C on, and the engine broiling under the hood.
Toyota doesn't MANDATE 0w-16. They allow limited use of 0w-20 and also other unknown higher viscosites depending on driving conditions. Did you read your manual or my posts where I quoted the relevant parts of your manual?
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Toyota doesn't MANDATE 0w-16. They allow limited use of 0w-20 and also other unknown higher viscosites depending on driving conditions. Did you read your manual or my posts where I quoted the relevant parts of your manual?


Yes, yes, yes. But it's all playing with words. They tell you that, "0W-20 can be substituted in place of 0W-16 if it isn't available". Then they also tell you that it, Must be replaced with 0w-16 at the next oil change. The fact of the matter is they want 0W-16 in the engine. Or else they wouldn't put a big yellow sticker under the hood telling you that.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: billt460
Our local Wal-Mart is only 1.5 miles from our house. On these 40 degree Winter mornings it takes about 2 to 3 minutes to get there. (Less if we get the green light on the corner). Hardly enough time for a proper warm up. So.... Should I go with the drag race boys, and fill my cold crankcase with 0W-8?.... Or... Stick with Toyota's much thicker mandate of 0W-16, and be properly protected when the engine reaches operating temperature?


My concern would be summer heat and traffic. Those are the worst commutes for me. I like to match the oil to the worst driving conditions I see. I'm still not a fan of one size fits all.
wink.gif

Especially when the one size oil is aimed at only one area, fuel economy. A true one size oil would be something like a thick 0W-30 or a 0W-40.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
Toyota doesn't MANDATE 0w-16. They allow limited use of 0w-20 and also other unknown higher viscosites depending on driving conditions. Did you read your manual or my posts where I quoted the relevant parts of your manual?


Yes, yes, yes. But it's all playing with words. They tell you that, "0W-20 can be substituted in place of 0W-16 if it isn't available". Then they also tell you that it, Must be replaced with 0w-16 at the next oil change. The fact of the matter is they want 0W-16 in the engine. Or else they wouldn't put a big yellow sticker under the hood telling you that.
You missed this: "An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher
value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or
under extreme load conditions"

And yes. They are playing with words. .gov rules and accountants write the manuals. The engineers yell from down the hall.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: billt460
Our local Wal-Mart is only 1.5 miles from our house. On these 40 degree Winter mornings it takes about 2 to 3 minutes to get there. (Less if we get the green light on the corner). Hardly enough time for a proper warm up. So.... Should I go with the drag race boys, and fill my cold crankcase with 0W-8?.... Or... Stick with Toyota's much thicker mandate of 0W-16, and be properly protected when the engine reaches operating temperature?


My concern would be summer heat and traffic. Those are the worst commutes for me. I like to match the oil to the worst driving conditions I see. I'm still not a fan of one size fits all.
wink.gif

Especially when the one size oil is aimed at only one area, fuel economy. A true one size oil would be something like a thick 0W-30 or a 0W-40.


I guess I was flashing back to my 08 Liberty, when they changed the fill cap from 5W30 to 5W20 and clearly stated in the OM 5W20 ONLY, no other options. After reading what you said least there's a choice here.
 
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Originally Posted By: hatt
And yes. They are playing with words. .gov rules and accountants write the manuals. The engineers yell from down the hall.


If that were true the millions of people using these oils today in their vehicles would be failing emissions testing left and right with worn out engines. It's not happening. The fact is if 40 years ago when every car in America was using 10W-40 or thicker oil, if you had a crystal ball, and told that same bunch of "engineers", that in 40 years cars in Arizona would have their crankcases full of 0W-16, or 0W-20, or whatever, they would have laughed out loud in total denial.

Yet here we are. And guess what? The cars sold today have better, higher mileage warranties than ever before, and are lasting longer than ever before. These same "engineers" who are "yelling down the hall", are the same one's who produced and tested these oils in the first place. So they have managed to prove they're good at fighting amongst themselves to come to whatever conclusion suits them, depending on whatever argument they're presently engaged in..... Just like here.

What is their argument going to be in another 20 years or so, when all the new cars are running 0w-5, or 0W-10, and all the 0w-16 vehicles are still on the road?
 
Words mean things. Toyota didn't include double talk in their manual for no reason. If 0w-16 was all the engine required for all conditions they would have saved the ink. If engineers wrote that manual you'd see one of the old school charts or something similar matching conditions to recommended grade.
 
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Stupid OEM manufacturers who design and build vehicles with engines and develop and prescribe the oil grades and fluids to use and write in down in a Owners Manual.

But they have no personality or marketing skills to convince the owners of the vehicles to follow it, ie the Owners Manual.

Stupid OEMs.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
If 0w-16 was all the engine required for all conditions they would have saved the ink.


So if Toyota is lying, and people follow the sticker under the hood, when can we all expect our engines to fail?
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
If 0w-16 was all the engine required for all conditions they would have saved the ink.


So if Toyota is lying, and people follow the sticker under the hood, when can we all expect our engines to fail?
Most likely years after your lease is up or you trade in on a newer model. You'll notice I'm running a 20 in my Camry right now. Picked up the oil on clearance at Sam's $4.91 for 6 quarts.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Words mean things.


Not in this case, and here is why. The FACT is Toyota will deliver EVERY 2018 Camry with 0W-16 oil in the crankcase. And most likely every Toyota Camry in the future as well. At least until they go to 0W-8. Or 0W-5. And seeing as Toyota offers "free" service for 2 years, that means those same Toyota Camry's will be serviced with 0W-16 oil, every time they come in. Regardless if they're being driven in Fairbanks in January, or Phoenix in June.

And after the 2 year "free" service is up, 99.9999% of them will continue to see 0W-16 oil in them for the life of the vehicle. And guess what? Every single one of them will run just fine. No matter if they're being driven up and down mountains. Or across Kansas. Or in desert heat. Or in a Montana blizzard. They'll all run the same. Just like all the Camry's before them. And all the one's after them. So no, words aren't going to matter. At least not in the real world. Unless you're an "engineer" sitting on a bar stool somewhere, or on BITOG. And then it's just meaningless blather to pass the time.
 
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
Words mean things.


Not in this case, and here is why. The FACT is Toyota will deliver EVERY 2018 Camry with 0W-16 oil in the crankcase. And most likely every Toyota Camry in the future as well. At least until they go to 0W-8. Or 0W-5. And seeing as Toyota offers "free" service for 2 years, that means those same Toyota Camry's will be serviced with 0W-16 oil, every time they come in. Regardless if they're being driven in Fairbanks in January, or Phoenix in June.

And after the 2 year "free" service is up, 99.9999% of them will continue to see 0W-16 oil in them for the life of the vehicle. And guess what? Every single one of them will run just fine. No matter if they're being driven up and down mountains. Or across Kansas. Or in desert heat. Or in a Montana blizzard. They'll all run the same. Just like all the Camry's before them. And all the one's after them. So no, words aren't going to matter. At least not in the real world. Unless you're an "engineer" sitting on a bar stool somewhere, or on BITOG. And then it's just meaningless blather to pass the time.


There's also a very good chance the dealer's "free" service will be whatever flavor the bulk tank has at the time the vehicle was in for an oil change. God only knows how many times that has been discussed here.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
Words mean things.


Not in this case, and here is why. The FACT is Toyota will deliver EVERY 2018 Camry with 0W-16 oil in the crankcase. And most likely every Toyota Camry in the future as well. At least until they go to 0W-8. Or 0W-5. And seeing as Toyota offers "free" service for 2 years, that means those same Toyota Camry's will be serviced with 0W-16 oil, every time they come in. Regardless if they're being driven in Fairbanks in January, or Phoenix in June.

And after the 2 year "free" service is up, 99.9999% of them will continue to see 0W-16 oil in them for the life of the vehicle. And guess what? Every single one of them will run just fine. No matter if they're being driven up and down mountains. Or across Kansas. Or in desert heat. Or in a Montana blizzard. They'll all run the same. Just like all the Camry's before them. And all the one's after them. So no, words aren't going to matter. At least not in the real world. Unless you're an "engineer" sitting on a bar stool somewhere, or on BITOG. And then it's just meaningless blather to pass the time.


There's also a very good chance the dealer's "free" service will be whatever flavor the bulk tank has at the time the vehicle was in for an oil change. God only knows how many times that has been discussed here.
LOL. I also doubt the quick lubes are going to include 0w-16 in their $14.95/19.95 oil change deal that most people are going to get.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
Words mean things.


Not in this case, and here is why. The FACT is Toyota will deliver EVERY 2018 Camry with 0W-16 oil in the crankcase. And most likely every Toyota Camry in the future as well. At least until they go to 0W-8. Or 0W-5. And seeing as Toyota offers "free" service for 2 years, that means those same Toyota Camry's will be serviced with 0W-16 oil, every time they come in. Regardless if they're being driven in Fairbanks in January, or Phoenix in June.

And after the 2 year "free" service is up, 99.9999% of them will continue to see 0W-16 oil in them for the life of the vehicle. And guess what? Every single one of them will run just fine. No matter if they're being driven up and down mountains. Or across Kansas. Or in desert heat. Or in a Montana blizzard. They'll all run the same. Just like all the Camry's before them. And all the one's after them. So no, words aren't going to matter. At least not in the real world. Unless you're an "engineer" sitting on a bar stool somewhere, or on BITOG. And then it's just meaningless blather to pass the time.


There's also a very good chance the dealer's "free" service will be whatever flavor the bulk tank has at the time the vehicle was in for an oil change. God only knows how many times that has been discussed here.
LOL. I also doubt the quick lubes are going to include 0w-16 in their $14.95/19.95 oil change deal that most people are going to get.


For sure! All kidding aside with regard to the dealers, profit margin comes first especially with a free oil change loss leader, so I wouldn't expect 0W-anything. The other thing is if the OM says it's OK to use 0W20, 5W20 etc. it gives them the perfect out if challenged by a customer as to what grade oil they used. I heard it before, we use this oil because we found it is better for your car. Even if it really isn't.
 
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Originally Posted By: hatt
I also doubt the quick lubes are going to include 0w-16 in their $14.95/19.95 oil change deal that most people are going to get.


They will 2 years from now, when people with their then 2 year old Camry's start going there after their "free" Toyota service runs out. By then 0W-16 will be as common as dirt. And everyone will be looking for the next even thinner oil that's going to destroy their engines.
 
You started this thread saying you never heard of 0-16 oil and now 19 pages later you're an expert on its values.
In a few more pages You'll be the inventor.
 
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