0W-16 Oil....... Really ??
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Originally Posted By: Patman
If you want to get technical, 0w16 oil has been around as long as Mobil 1 0w20 AFE has been around, because after a few thousand miles it always thins out to a 0w16 anyways!
Not possible. I have been told many times here that oils do not exist that are not graded in a multiple of 5. Someone recently mentioned a "7.5w-30" and folks tripped out.
If you want to get technical, 0w16 oil has been around as long as Mobil 1 0w20 AFE has been around, because after a few thousand miles it always thins out to a 0w16 anyways!
Not possible. I have been told many times here that oils do not exist that are not graded in a multiple of 5. Someone recently mentioned a "7.5w-30" and folks tripped out.
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Not possible. I have been told many times here that oils do not exist that are not graded in a multiple of 5. Someone recently mentioned a "7.5w-30" and folks tripped out.
We have shown you over and over and over again, that J300 has a set number of "W" ratings (that DO NOT INCLUDE 7.5W), and a set of 100C ratings (that DO include 8, 12, and 16)
Not possible. I have been told many times here that oils do not exist that are not graded in a multiple of 5. Someone recently mentioned a "7.5w-30" and folks tripped out.
We have shown you over and over and over again, that J300 has a set number of "W" ratings (that DO NOT INCLUDE 7.5W), and a set of 100C ratings (that DO include 8, 12, and 16)
Rename this the "Seinfeld Thread" the thread that was about nothing.
It just keeps growing and growing.
Its a hit.
It just keeps growing and growing.
Its a hit.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Not possible. I have been told many times here that oils do not exist that are not graded in a multiple of 5. Someone recently mentioned a "7.5w-30" and folks tripped out.
We have shown you over and over and over again, that J300 has a set number of "W" ratings (that DO NOT INCLUDE 7.5W), and a set of 100C ratings (that DO include 8, 12, and 16)
Dude, I GET IT! What I am pointing at is the inability of some here to perceive there is more than just the "multiple of 5" system. By posting what I did I was hoping the light would come on for those who can't grasp this concept.
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Not possible. I have been told many times here that oils do not exist that are not graded in a multiple of 5. Someone recently mentioned a "7.5w-30" and folks tripped out.
We have shown you over and over and over again, that J300 has a set number of "W" ratings (that DO NOT INCLUDE 7.5W), and a set of 100C ratings (that DO include 8, 12, and 16)
Dude, I GET IT! What I am pointing at is the inability of some here to perceive there is more than just the "multiple of 5" system. By posting what I did I was hoping the light would come on for those who can't grasp this concept.
Originally Posted By: hatt
This thread has been entertaining. People proclaim ever lighter weight oils aren't just about MPG and then post links where they say the ever lighter weight oils are driven by MPG.
The idea is to find the oil that causes the least friction in most driving conditions without resulting in excess wear in high-load conditions.
Therefore, no, by going lower and lower in viscosity, you can't have less and less friction and better and better fuel economy indefinitely. The new Camry engine was designed for 0W-16. You can't simply expect to put 0W-16 in a random engine and obtain better fuel economy. You need to find the sweet spot on the Stribeck curve, which is slightly toward the right of the minimum. n (eta) is the viscosity, V is the RPM (speed) and P is the load (pressure). For example turbo engines pack high power in a small space, which results in more pressure (force per area) and requires higher viscosity to compensate. The newer types of friction modifiers in 0W-16 and thinner oils also allow the designer to come closer to the minimum of the curve without jeopardizing the high-load operations, which could further move the system toward the left of the minimum, where metal-to-metal contact start to begin.
This thread has been entertaining. People proclaim ever lighter weight oils aren't just about MPG and then post links where they say the ever lighter weight oils are driven by MPG.
The idea is to find the oil that causes the least friction in most driving conditions without resulting in excess wear in high-load conditions.
Therefore, no, by going lower and lower in viscosity, you can't have less and less friction and better and better fuel economy indefinitely. The new Camry engine was designed for 0W-16. You can't simply expect to put 0W-16 in a random engine and obtain better fuel economy. You need to find the sweet spot on the Stribeck curve, which is slightly toward the right of the minimum. n (eta) is the viscosity, V is the RPM (speed) and P is the load (pressure). For example turbo engines pack high power in a small space, which results in more pressure (force per area) and requires higher viscosity to compensate. The newer types of friction modifiers in 0W-16 and thinner oils also allow the designer to come closer to the minimum of the curve without jeopardizing the high-load operations, which could further move the system toward the left of the minimum, where metal-to-metal contact start to begin.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Garak
0w-16 did not exist until SAE J300 said so, and that's fairly recent.
Something either exists, or it doesn't.
Again:
https://noln.net/2017/06/30/skinny-ow-16-oil/
"Although it may sound new and scary, 0W-16 oils have been in use for almost two decades in Japan."
Bill, just because a magazine says it, doesn't make it true. Take a look at the SAE J300 from 1999 I posted for you. What this magazine is claiming these 0w-16 things were were actually 0w-20 according to the rules. If it had API certification or used API trademarks, it would have to be labelled as a 0w-20. The viscometric properties of the oils you are talking about back then fell well within the 0w-20 grade according to SAE J300.
Now, just because an automaker, or a boutique, or an oil company that caters to boy racers says otherwise, doesn't make it so. I can go to my garage with a Magic Marker and relabel my Rotella 5w-30 as 5w-35 and my 5w-30 ILSAC oils as 2.5w-30, and it's just as legitimate - in other words, not at all.
An imaginary grade is an imaginary grade. You can't have a -5w-40 either, just a 0w-40 with a very good MRV/CCS.
Originally Posted By: Garak
0w-16 did not exist until SAE J300 said so, and that's fairly recent.
Something either exists, or it doesn't.
Again:
https://noln.net/2017/06/30/skinny-ow-16-oil/
"Although it may sound new and scary, 0W-16 oils have been in use for almost two decades in Japan."
Bill, just because a magazine says it, doesn't make it true. Take a look at the SAE J300 from 1999 I posted for you. What this magazine is claiming these 0w-16 things were were actually 0w-20 according to the rules. If it had API certification or used API trademarks, it would have to be labelled as a 0w-20. The viscometric properties of the oils you are talking about back then fell well within the 0w-20 grade according to SAE J300.
Now, just because an automaker, or a boutique, or an oil company that caters to boy racers says otherwise, doesn't make it so. I can go to my garage with a Magic Marker and relabel my Rotella 5w-30 as 5w-35 and my 5w-30 ILSAC oils as 2.5w-30, and it's just as legitimate - in other words, not at all.
An imaginary grade is an imaginary grade. You can't have a -5w-40 either, just a 0w-40 with a very good MRV/CCS.
Lots of freaking out about 0W16, but why? Half of the grade is essentially the lower half of the old 20 spec. Wait for 0W8 to start freaking out, this is nothing.
Originally Posted By: PeterPolyol
Lots of freaking out about 0W16, but why? Half of the grade is essentially the lower half of the old 20 spec. Wait for 0W8 to start freaking out, this is nothing.
No freaking out here...just trying to explain products and behaviours in different markets, not passing commentary or recommendation.
I'd use it preferentially to TGMO.
Lots of freaking out about 0W16, but why? Half of the grade is essentially the lower half of the old 20 spec. Wait for 0W8 to start freaking out, this is nothing.
No freaking out here...just trying to explain products and behaviours in different markets, not passing commentary or recommendation.
I'd use it preferentially to TGMO.
Wow lots of discussion...I'll keep reading as long as folks keep posting.
Originally Posted By: NGRhodes
Most people drove around 90mph on the clear bits on the Autobahns when I was on them. I had a moving average of 70mph driving across France
on the Autoroutes.
So, the Autobahn is like the right lane on Mass Pike...
;^)
Most people drove around 90mph on the clear bits on the Autobahns when I was on them. I had a moving average of 70mph driving across France
on the Autoroutes.
So, the Autobahn is like the right lane on Mass Pike...
;^)
Originally Posted By: PimTac
.... One thing I’ve never done is to ride the Shinkasen which I hope to do someday. Tokyo to Osaka is only 90 minutes. As efficient as their system is, it is really something to watch. Anyone who has flown out of Narita will know.
I took the Shinkasen last year for the first time.. I was actually very disappointed because it was so quiet and smooth that you do not notice how fast and awesome it is. The train going in the opposite direction and going through tunnels (which last for a sec or so) is the only indication that you are going crazy fast. I wonder what oil they use to grease their bearings?
.... One thing I’ve never done is to ride the Shinkasen which I hope to do someday. Tokyo to Osaka is only 90 minutes. As efficient as their system is, it is really something to watch. Anyone who has flown out of Narita will know.
I took the Shinkasen last year for the first time.. I was actually very disappointed because it was so quiet and smooth that you do not notice how fast and awesome it is. The train going in the opposite direction and going through tunnels (which last for a sec or so) is the only indication that you are going crazy fast. I wonder what oil they use to grease their bearings?
I rode on the Shinkansen train 2 years ago on our way to Osaka. We were at the station platform as the train pulled in from its previous run and the engines were LOUD. Reminded me of Harleys at half throttle. Once inside, the engine sound was surprisingly subdued. Sounded like purring kittens to me.
I saw a show where the rider balanced a coin on its edge while the Shinkansen was at top speed. The coin didn’t move at all.
I also saw another show where some guy with claws threw bad guys right through the trains walls and even was on top of the train fighting.
I also saw another show where some guy with claws threw bad guys right through the trains walls and even was on top of the train fighting.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I saw a show where the rider balanced a coin on its edge while the Shinkansen was at top speed. The coin didn’t move at all.
I also saw another show where some guy with claws threw bad guys right through the trains walls and even was on top of the train fighting.
I think that I saw that second documentary.
Back when I was turbine engineer at Wallerawang, I used to boast that I could balance a coin on the thrust bearing. When challenged, I always delivered. If I placed it face side down, is stayed there.
I saw a show where the rider balanced a coin on its edge while the Shinkansen was at top speed. The coin didn’t move at all.
I also saw another show where some guy with claws threw bad guys right through the trains walls and even was on top of the train fighting.
I think that I saw that second documentary.
Back when I was turbine engineer at Wallerawang, I used to boast that I could balance a coin on the thrust bearing. When challenged, I always delivered. If I placed it face side down, is stayed there.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I saw a show where the rider balanced a coin on its edge while the Shinkansen was at top speed. The coin didn’t move at all.
I also saw another show where some guy with claws threw bad guys right through the trains walls and even was on top of the train fighting.
I think that I saw that second documentary.
Back when I was turbine engineer at Wallerawang, I used to boast that I could balance a coin on the thrust bearing. When challenged, I always delivered. If I placed it face side down, is stayed there.
That was a good chuckle to start Re morning. Thanks Shannow
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I saw a show where the rider balanced a coin on its edge while the Shinkansen was at top speed. The coin didn’t move at all.
I also saw another show where some guy with claws threw bad guys right through the trains walls and even was on top of the train fighting.
I think that I saw that second documentary.
Back when I was turbine engineer at Wallerawang, I used to boast that I could balance a coin on the thrust bearing. When challenged, I always delivered. If I placed it face side down, is stayed there.
That was a good chuckle to start Re morning. Thanks Shannow
Originally Posted By: berniedd
I rode on the Shinkansen train 2 years ago on our way to Osaka. We were at the station platform as the train pulled in from its previous run and the engines were LOUD. Reminded me of Harleys at half throttle. Once inside, the engine sound was surprisingly subdued. Sounded like purring kittens to me.
The thing I remember most about the Shinkansen was having an express train go through the station while I was waiting for mine to show up.
I'm sure the thing had slowed down from its normal cruising speed, but it was still booking and it was pretty amazing to have that thing flying by and nobody else paying the slightest attention to it.
I also remember when two of the bullet trains would pass in opposite directions and they would lean away from each other, guess the air between them couldn't get away quickly enough.
I was busy working on a presentation on a bullet train and completely missed that we were passing Mt Fuji. That trip was nonstop travel and meetings until the very end, on my last night in Tokyo a salesman took me out to a hostess bar and it was quite an experience for me. The plan was for him to escort me to my hotel after we had a few drinks with his boss, but he gave me a sly look in the cab and said, "I haven't had enough to drink tonight!" He wasn't like the other salesmen I met there, very open about his emotions and even hugged me at the end of our night. I was shocked that salesman who had worked in the same office for a dozen years didn't know each other's first names, they were just not used at work.
I rode on the Shinkansen train 2 years ago on our way to Osaka. We were at the station platform as the train pulled in from its previous run and the engines were LOUD. Reminded me of Harleys at half throttle. Once inside, the engine sound was surprisingly subdued. Sounded like purring kittens to me.
The thing I remember most about the Shinkansen was having an express train go through the station while I was waiting for mine to show up.
I'm sure the thing had slowed down from its normal cruising speed, but it was still booking and it was pretty amazing to have that thing flying by and nobody else paying the slightest attention to it.
I also remember when two of the bullet trains would pass in opposite directions and they would lean away from each other, guess the air between them couldn't get away quickly enough.
I was busy working on a presentation on a bullet train and completely missed that we were passing Mt Fuji. That trip was nonstop travel and meetings until the very end, on my last night in Tokyo a salesman took me out to a hostess bar and it was quite an experience for me. The plan was for him to escort me to my hotel after we had a few drinks with his boss, but he gave me a sly look in the cab and said, "I haven't had enough to drink tonight!" He wasn't like the other salesmen I met there, very open about his emotions and even hugged me at the end of our night. I was shocked that salesman who had worked in the same office for a dozen years didn't know each other's first names, they were just not used at work.
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Here in the Seattle region where trains are a relatively recent addition there are several accidents at crossings every year. Most crossings have the train slow down which defeats the purpose of a speedy transit. Of course these trains barely hit 60mph if that.
I noticed that in Japan the crossings are respected very well. The trains do not slow down. The Shinkansen of course is on its own track.
I noticed that in Japan the crossings are respected very well. The trains do not slow down. The Shinkansen of course is on its own track.
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