0W-16 Oil....... Really ??
- Thread starter billt460
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Originally Posted By: billt460
Or else they wouldn't put a big yellow sticker under the hood telling you that.
Because CAFE (NHTSA and EPA) tell them that in order to get the credits of running a 0W16, they must take every measure to ensure that the end user USES 0W16.
Including manual wording, oil filler cap markings, and "big yellow stickers"
Or else they wouldn't put a big yellow sticker under the hood telling you that.
Because CAFE (NHTSA and EPA) tell them that in order to get the credits of running a 0W16, they must take every measure to ensure that the end user USES 0W16.
Including manual wording, oil filler cap markings, and "big yellow stickers"
Originally Posted By: billt460
So..... If the drag racers are confident enough to thunder down the 1/4 mile, with the crankcases of their ice cold engines filled with 0W-8 oil. I'm going to sleep well knowing my Camry is protected with engine lubricant rated twice as thick, (0W-16). As my wife cruises down the street to Wal-Mart in the hellish Summer heat!
You're not grasping the concept. 0W-8 at the end of a 1/4 mile run is still much thicker than 0W-16 at full operating temperature in your car. Drag racers don't really get the oil very hot during a run - that's why they are now using these thin oils in order to gain HP and still have relatively "thick" oil during the 1/4 mile run. Now if those drag racers used 0W-8 and went down the 1/4 starting with the oil at 220 F then they would be asking for some trouble.
So..... If the drag racers are confident enough to thunder down the 1/4 mile, with the crankcases of their ice cold engines filled with 0W-8 oil. I'm going to sleep well knowing my Camry is protected with engine lubricant rated twice as thick, (0W-16). As my wife cruises down the street to Wal-Mart in the hellish Summer heat!
You're not grasping the concept. 0W-8 at the end of a 1/4 mile run is still much thicker than 0W-16 at full operating temperature in your car. Drag racers don't really get the oil very hot during a run - that's why they are now using these thin oils in order to gain HP and still have relatively "thick" oil during the 1/4 mile run. Now if those drag racers used 0W-8 and went down the 1/4 starting with the oil at 220 F then they would be asking for some trouble.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: jongies3
If it makes you feel any better, Royal Purple offers a 0W-5 weight oil for racing applications!
Evidently motor racing must fall under CAFE fuel mileage standards as well. Because as we all know, there is absolutely zero reason to use such thin oils for any other purpose, other than to increase fuel economy, and meet CAFE Federal fuel mileage standards. So now the only question remains, is why is Toyota mandating the use of such a thick oil, (0w-16) for street use in the 2018 Camry???
Royal Purple made up their own set of numbers ???
They don't use J300 viscosity ratings...
But you knew that already...and seeing as you are hanging a hat...you'll clearly back Royal Purple when they say
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/xpr-racing-oil/
Quote:
XPR 0W-8
is an ultra-light viscosity racing motor oil formulated for use in drag racing, motorcycle sprint racing, etc.
XPR 0W-20
is a light-viscosity motor oil formulated to withstand exotic fuels such as alcohol, methanol and nitrous oxide (NO2). This blend is excellent for drag racing.
XPR 0W-30
is a light-viscosity motor oil formulated to withstand exotic fuels such as alcohol, methanol and nitrous oxide (NO2). This blend is excellent for drag racing.
XPR 5W-20
is a light-viscosity motor oil formulated to withstand exotic fuels such as alcohol, methanol and nitrous oxide (NO2). This blend is excellent for drag racing.
The people who run these oils, are single pass, starting from all but cold (oil's thicker when it's cold Bill), and at times aren't scared to waste a set of bearings to win.
Quote:
XPR 5w30
works well in a variety of applications, from oval track late models to bracket racing. This synthetic motor oil blend is extremely versatile and produces excellent horsepower while preventing wear.
XPR 10W-40
is designed for marine, oval track and endurance car racing. Capable of withstanding long intervals of extreme heat, it works especially well with alcohol and methanol and is extremely popular in sprint cars, late models and World of Outlaws racing.
XPR 20W-50
is formulated for running extended periods under extreme pressure and heat. It is used in oval track, marine and drag racing and is very popular in sprint cars, late models, truck pullers and bracket racing.
That RP XPR 0w8 used to be called 0w10. They probably changed it when the Camry came out using 0w16, or when the 16/12/8 grades were added to J300
So my questions are, does it actually meet the requirements of an SAE 0w8 oil? And did they change the formula or is it just a relabel of the old 0w10? RP did not change the part number, which is still 01009. Someone needs to do a VOA on the 0w8
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: jongies3
If it makes you feel any better, Royal Purple offers a 0W-5 weight oil for racing applications!
Evidently motor racing must fall under CAFE fuel mileage standards as well. Because as we all know, there is absolutely zero reason to use such thin oils for any other purpose, other than to increase fuel economy, and meet CAFE Federal fuel mileage standards. So now the only question remains, is why is Toyota mandating the use of such a thick oil, (0w-16) for street use in the 2018 Camry???
Royal Purple made up their own set of numbers ???
They don't use J300 viscosity ratings...
But you knew that already...and seeing as you are hanging a hat...you'll clearly back Royal Purple when they say
http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/xpr-racing-oil/
Quote:
XPR 0W-8
is an ultra-light viscosity racing motor oil formulated for use in drag racing, motorcycle sprint racing, etc.
XPR 0W-20
is a light-viscosity motor oil formulated to withstand exotic fuels such as alcohol, methanol and nitrous oxide (NO2). This blend is excellent for drag racing.
XPR 0W-30
is a light-viscosity motor oil formulated to withstand exotic fuels such as alcohol, methanol and nitrous oxide (NO2). This blend is excellent for drag racing.
XPR 5W-20
is a light-viscosity motor oil formulated to withstand exotic fuels such as alcohol, methanol and nitrous oxide (NO2). This blend is excellent for drag racing.
The people who run these oils, are single pass, starting from all but cold (oil's thicker when it's cold Bill), and at times aren't scared to waste a set of bearings to win.
Quote:
XPR 5w30
works well in a variety of applications, from oval track late models to bracket racing. This synthetic motor oil blend is extremely versatile and produces excellent horsepower while preventing wear.
XPR 10W-40
is designed for marine, oval track and endurance car racing. Capable of withstanding long intervals of extreme heat, it works especially well with alcohol and methanol and is extremely popular in sprint cars, late models and World of Outlaws racing.
XPR 20W-50
is formulated for running extended periods under extreme pressure and heat. It is used in oval track, marine and drag racing and is very popular in sprint cars, late models, truck pullers and bracket racing.
That RP XPR 0w8 used to be called 0w10. They probably changed it when the Camry came out using 0w16, or when the 16/12/8 grades were added to J300
So my questions are, does it actually meet the requirements of an SAE 0w8 oil? And did they change the formula or is it just a relabel of the old 0w10? RP did not change the part number, which is still 01009. Someone needs to do a VOA on the 0w8
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
That RP XPR 0w8 used to be called 0w10. They probably changed it when the Camry came out using 0w16, or when the 16/12/8 grades were added to J300
So my questions are, does it actually meet the requirements of an SAE 0w8 oil? And did they change the formula or is it just a relabel of the old 0w10? RP did not change the part number, which is still 01009. Someone needs to do a VOA on the 0w8
Yeah, I would like to know too...
but RP don't let you get their data sheets anymore after we basically proved that their 0W40 was probably the only PAO based oil in their line...
That RP XPR 0w8 used to be called 0w10. They probably changed it when the Camry came out using 0w16, or when the 16/12/8 grades were added to J300
So my questions are, does it actually meet the requirements of an SAE 0w8 oil? And did they change the formula or is it just a relabel of the old 0w10? RP did not change the part number, which is still 01009. Someone needs to do a VOA on the 0w8
Yeah, I would like to know too...
but RP don't let you get their data sheets anymore after we basically proved that their 0W40 was probably the only PAO based oil in their line...
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
So my questions are, does it actually meet the requirements of an SAE 0w8 oil? And did they change the formula or is it just a relabel of the old 0w10? RP did not change the part number, which is still 01009. Someone needs to do a VOA on the 0w8
I'd say if the part number didn't change, then it's just a relabel job.
So my questions are, does it actually meet the requirements of an SAE 0w8 oil? And did they change the formula or is it just a relabel of the old 0w10? RP did not change the part number, which is still 01009. Someone needs to do a VOA on the 0w8
I'd say if the part number didn't change, then it's just a relabel job.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
And just like every thick vs thin thread before this one.
And that's the truth.
And just like every thick vs thin thread before this one.
And that's the truth.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
I don’t see why folks are not comfortable with manufacturers requirements. They’ve done the testing we haven’t.
Because manufacturers have other things on their plate besides what's absolute best for your vehicle. Stuff like CAFE.
While that may or may not be true. It doesn't change the fact if you start playing engineer with your car, and start substituting oil weights and brands, and wind up with a failure. They could void your warranty. Why take the chance?
Your engine will not fail on 0w20. But your fuel economy will drop by.02 mpg.
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
I don’t see why folks are not comfortable with manufacturers requirements. They’ve done the testing we haven’t.
Because manufacturers have other things on their plate besides what's absolute best for your vehicle. Stuff like CAFE.
While that may or may not be true. It doesn't change the fact if you start playing engineer with your car, and start substituting oil weights and brands, and wind up with a failure. They could void your warranty. Why take the chance?
Your engine will not fail on 0w20. But your fuel economy will drop by.02 mpg.
I agree 100%.
HTHS of 2.7 will not blow up a motor meant to run on 2.4 HTHS. Just like my motor in my car the 3.5 VQ will not blow up on motor oil with an HTHS of 3.7 vs say 3.2 HTHS... It will be fine as long as it is API approved and has all the official markings on it and it is not trailer park oil like the garbage that the PQIA finds all too often in some roopty Doo gas stations.
HTHS of 2.7 will not blow up a motor meant to run on 2.4 HTHS. Just like my motor in my car the 3.5 VQ will not blow up on motor oil with an HTHS of 3.7 vs say 3.2 HTHS... It will be fine as long as it is API approved and has all the official markings on it and it is not trailer park oil like the garbage that the PQIA finds all too often in some roopty Doo gas stations.
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Because CAFE (NHTSA and EPA) tell them that in order to get the credits of running a 0W16, they must take every measure to ensure that the end user USES 0W16. Including manual wording, oil filler cap markings, and "big yellow stickers"
I'll let you in on something everyone else automatically knows. Automakers have been placing labels under the hood, and identifying in owners manuals, what type of oil should be used in their automobile engines long before CAFE, or even the EPA ever existed. This isn't some vast government conspiracy, regardless of how hard you try to make it one. All in some feeble attempt to support your whole, "thicker is better" song and dance routine... And stop PM'ing me with all of your childish nonsense. You really need to grow up.
Because CAFE (NHTSA and EPA) tell them that in order to get the credits of running a 0W16, they must take every measure to ensure that the end user USES 0W16. Including manual wording, oil filler cap markings, and "big yellow stickers"
I'll let you in on something everyone else automatically knows. Automakers have been placing labels under the hood, and identifying in owners manuals, what type of oil should be used in their automobile engines long before CAFE, or even the EPA ever existed. This isn't some vast government conspiracy, regardless of how hard you try to make it one. All in some feeble attempt to support your whole, "thicker is better" song and dance routine... And stop PM'ing me with all of your childish nonsense. You really need to grow up.
All I and others have been trying to tell you is why this suddenly new grade exists.
That was the nature of your initial post...surprise at something new.
Something that exists, as a result of CAFE in your market (well CO2 also now as of the last few years), and carbon emissions in other markets...
Not once have I told you, nor anyone else to do ANYTHING...but merely explained the reasoning behind the things that you have observed, in your new car, your owners manual, your yellow stickers...the things that YOU expressed surprise enough that you started a thread.
That's all.
You are the song and dance man...look at your drag racing Royal Purple diversion .... seriously
That was the nature of your initial post...surprise at something new.
Something that exists, as a result of CAFE in your market (well CO2 also now as of the last few years), and carbon emissions in other markets...
Not once have I told you, nor anyone else to do ANYTHING...but merely explained the reasoning behind the things that you have observed, in your new car, your owners manual, your yellow stickers...the things that YOU expressed surprise enough that you started a thread.
That's all.
You are the song and dance man...look at your drag racing Royal Purple diversion .... seriously
Originally Posted By: Shannow
All I and others have been trying to tell you is why this suddenly new grade exists.
It's hardly "new", or "sudden". It's been around for almost 20 years.
"Although it may sound new and scary, 0W-16 oils have been in use for almost two decades in Japan."
https://noln.net/2017/06/30/skinny-ow-16-oil/
All I and others have been trying to tell you is why this suddenly new grade exists.
It's hardly "new", or "sudden". It's been around for almost 20 years.
"Although it may sound new and scary, 0W-16 oils have been in use for almost two decades in Japan."
https://noln.net/2017/06/30/skinny-ow-16-oil/
Originally Posted By: Threadtitle
0W-16 Oil....... Really ??
Originally Posted By: billt460
So yesterday I bought a brand new 2018 Toyota Camry. One of the first things I noticed was the sticker under the hood that called out for 0W-16 Engine Oil. I never even heard of that weight.
And no, 0w16 is only the last couple of years...since the Japanese OEMs petitioned the API to include grades below 20...for the purposes of fuel economy, CAFE, and carbon emissions.
edit, and if you bother to look, I've referenced many times prior that the Japanese OEMs (Honda) were using out of SAE grades for a long time, all the time petitioning SAE to come up with sub J300 grades.
However, you were also unaware of J300 until the last few days...Google must be loving you.
0W-16 Oil....... Really ??
Originally Posted By: billt460
So yesterday I bought a brand new 2018 Toyota Camry. One of the first things I noticed was the sticker under the hood that called out for 0W-16 Engine Oil. I never even heard of that weight.
And no, 0w16 is only the last couple of years...since the Japanese OEMs petitioned the API to include grades below 20...for the purposes of fuel economy, CAFE, and carbon emissions.
edit, and if you bother to look, I've referenced many times prior that the Japanese OEMs (Honda) were using out of SAE grades for a long time, all the time petitioning SAE to come up with sub J300 grades.
However, you were also unaware of J300 until the last few days...Google must be loving you.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Shannow
And no, 0w16 is only the last couple of years.
Wrong. The stuff has been around for the last 20 years... Period. And all of your double talk and B.S. doesn't change that. It's not "new" or "sudden". Anymore than it will cause your engine to wear prematurely because it's too thin.
And no, 0w16 is only the last couple of years.
Wrong. The stuff has been around for the last 20 years... Period. And all of your double talk and B.S. doesn't change that. It's not "new" or "sudden". Anymore than it will cause your engine to wear prematurely because it's too thin.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Shannow
And no, 0w16 is only the last couple of years.
Wrong. The stuff has been around for the last 20 years... Period. And all of your double talk and B.S. doesn't change that. It's not "new" or "sudden". Anymore than it will cause your engine to wear prematurely because it's too thin.
The grade DID NOT EXIST until the last few years...the NEVER was a 0W16 before then.
There certainly was a 0W16 two weeks ago before you discovered it.
If you are going to claim that all oils, of all viscosities existed, then YES, I will yield to your prescentience.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
And no, 0w16 is only the last couple of years.
Wrong. The stuff has been around for the last 20 years... Period. And all of your double talk and B.S. doesn't change that. It's not "new" or "sudden". Anymore than it will cause your engine to wear prematurely because it's too thin.
The grade DID NOT EXIST until the last few years...the NEVER was a 0W16 before then.
There certainly was a 0W16 two weeks ago before you discovered it.
If you are going to claim that all oils, of all viscosities existed, then YES, I will yield to your prescentience.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
If you are going to claim that all oils, of all viscosities existed, then YES, I will yield to your prescentience.
It doesn't matter. I don't care what you will "yield to" or not. I place zero value on anything you put forth. Simply because all you want to do is argue. I've tripped you up umpteen times in this thread alone with all the nonsense you put out. There is a difference between being informative, and being argumentative. You have yet to figure that out. And I've got plenty of PM's in my folder from other members here who are in agreement, and will attest to that very thing. We ALL can't be wrong about you. Just think about that before you start your typing rampage again.
If you are going to claim that all oils, of all viscosities existed, then YES, I will yield to your prescentience.
It doesn't matter. I don't care what you will "yield to" or not. I place zero value on anything you put forth. Simply because all you want to do is argue. I've tripped you up umpteen times in this thread alone with all the nonsense you put out. There is a difference between being informative, and being argumentative. You have yet to figure that out. And I've got plenty of PM's in my folder from other members here who are in agreement, and will attest to that very thing. We ALL can't be wrong about you. Just think about that before you start your typing rampage again.
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