ZTR Engines

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Phishin

Joined
May 1, 2012
Messages
2,925
Location
Indiana
I'm about to buy a new home. It's going to have approximately 5 acres of yard to mow.
I like what I'm seeing in the commercial grade Hustler's.
They have basically three engine options: Kawasaki FX, Kohler Commands, and Brigg's Vanguard Big Blocks.

I was a bit surprised that most knowledgeable people (ZTR service guys and hardcore landscaping crews) are saying that the Kohlers are the best, they have had good but limited experience with the Vanguards, and they rank the Kawasaki last.

What say you?
 
Love my Vanguard EFI 28 hp so far. Only 75 hours on it. Friends have had good success with Kawasakis as well.
 
I work on a lot of these for customers, and the experience mirrors what they said. The Kohler Commands are pretty good, they can burn a bit of oil once they get over 700-800 hours, and the Vanguards I don't see often but still pretty solid (made in Japan). The Kawasakis are just okay. From a performance stand point I like them, quiet, powerful, etc, but ordering parts can be kinda fun sometimes, and many of them burn a lot of oil even when new. I find that a lot of the "hate" for certain brands stems from failures where lack of maintenance was involved. Example: I replaced a Kawasaki on a ZTR a few months ago that was run low on oil. It was one of the newer oil burners that I had the customer running 15w50 in, but he just never remembered to check it, and it seized. Of course he blamed the manufacturer and swore off Kawasaki forever (I replaced it with a lightly used Kohler Command). So you can see how things snowball. Personally if I had a Kawasaki that was fairly new and burned that much oil I wouldn't be happy either...
 
I have a 100 hours on my Kawasaki in my Scag and it has been a good performer, starts right up cold with a little choke but like others have said it uses a little oil and has since new. I have run 15W-40, 15W-50, and 20W-50 here in Florida. But I just changed it to straight 40W (SN) which Kawasaki approves for our Florida summer temperatures and will see how it does.
 
jhs914 said:
I have a 100 hours on my Kawasaki in my Scag and it has been a good performer, starts right up cold with a little choke but like others have said it uses a little oil and has since new. I have run 15W-40, 15W-50, and 20W-50 here in Florida. But I just changed it to straight 40W (SN) which Kawasaki approves for our Florida summer temperatures and will see how it does.
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It's strange and in my opinion is a manufacturing defect. Some of them run fine and use zero oil with just 15w40 or SAE 30, others will burn lots of oil in just a few hours of run time, with no visible smoke.
 
My only real experience is with John Deere 757 and 777 both with Kawasaki engines. I’d be hard pressed to ever switch. Almost 2000 hours on the 777 and 2600 hours on my 757. Mine is starting to use minimal oil, it’s running on 15w40 Schaeffer. I’ll repower the 757 when the engine gives up. I think it’s only got a few seasons left.
 
Vanguards are good motors. If you're just a homeowner consider saving some money and going with the briggs commercial turf engine if it is offered. I bought a ferris is700 in 2014, I have 9 acres to mow, the mower has 155 hours on it, it has a 28HP commercial turf engine, no issues. The big commercial machines are so fast at cutting that you just don't put many hours on them as a homeowner.
I bought a 36" wright stander used, I cut my main residence's half acre with it, it has the 17HP Kawasaki on it and has 1400 hours. No smoke and good compression. If you go with the Kawi, it is critical to blow off the cylinder cooling fins often, if grass builds up on the cooling fins the cylinder head overheats and they drop exhaust valve seats, that repair alone will cost you nearly as much as a brand new complete commercial turf engine will.
 
thastinger said:
I bought a ferris is700 in 2014, I have 9 acres to mow, the mower has 155 hours on it, it has a 28HP commercial turf engine, no issues. The big commercial machines are so fast at cutting that you just don't put many hours on them as a homeowner.
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That's a great insight. Crazy to see that you only have 155 hours on it after 6 years of use. I'm sure I'll have a similar experience.

I've been really pondering the need for an expensive commercial grade ZTR. The 60-72" Hustlers (commercial) run $7k--$13k
Maybe I ought to be looking at the higher end residential/homeowner models??? ($5k) Or do you guys find that having the commercial grade units much more trouble free and enjoyable?
 
Lots of good recommendations here. I had a Wright 52 inch ZTR with a Kawasaki 19 hp purchased in 2007, used on my own lawn for 4 years, then turned over to my son for his landscaping business. It's still running strong after 13 years. My current tractor has a Vanguard 24 hp with only 200 hours and has been flawless.
 
I have about 300 hrs on my 27hp Kawi and the only repair has been an ignition coil. It does not use any oil.

I have heard good things about the Kohler and Vanguard engines. My next engine will definitely be EFI.
 
I have a friend who owns a medium-sized lawn company. He has tons of Kaw engines with 2000+ hours on them. The consumer Kaw engine is supposedly not as good, but I would not hesitate. That being said, I "settled" for the Kohler engine on mine - and I have no doubts or regrets. The owner of the lawn company recommended Exmark (better spindles than the consumer brands) so another friend purchased one 5 years ago, mows 3 acres, and loves it.

I certainly would have paid for fuel injection, but it was only available on a private-branded engine, and I preferred the carb'd Kohler over a generic engine. The weak point, if you go too low in a product line, seems to be the Hydrostatic transaxles - especially if you have hilly terrain or use it for work other than mowing. it seems to be important to change that fluid. also, as stated, ensure that the cooling fins for the engine and transaxles are clear of debris.
 
jeepman3071 said:
It's strange and in my opinion is a manufacturing defect. Some of them run fine and use zero oil with just 15w40 or SAE 30, others will burn lots of oil in just a few hours of run time, with no visible smoke.
Click to expand...
Mine doesn't use oil fast enough to bother me. I have to add a few ounces every 5 or 6 hours of operation which for me is about 9 or 10 cuts of my one acre yard.
 
Look at the 2020 Toro Titan. A high end residential/entry-level commercial machine.
 
My thirty plus year old Ransomes Bobcat has a Kohler Command (with who knows how many thousands of hours) that has been quite satisfactory. Besides oil and filters, over its life it's had a few spark plugs, 1 carb cleaning, a new muffler, a new recoil starter and nothing else done to it. I've rarely had to add make up oil between 100 hour oil changes, either.

Now that I've bragged on it, it will probably blow up next week, LOL.
 
I am brand loyal...
My fav is Briggs
Then
Kawi/Kohler/honda

Vanguard is a beast with good care
I have a 12.5hp with north of2-2,500hours some smoke, some top off

I have a Kohler 7000 24hp
160hrs. Kohler oil first change 5hr drain. 50hrs ocis since, edge w/to 10w-30.
Going with royal/ams/red in a sae30/40 diesel rated at 200 hrs

Harvey
 
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