Will Mobil & SOPUS Develop R&P Equivalent ?

[buster]

We should probably avoid sharing the slide that has totally different pistons I'm thinking? Just in terms of a credibility perspective. Stick to ones that show the same slugs, otherwise it comes off as disingenuous.

Also, PBR was designed to do its job in one go, as what @Shel_B posted from Valvoline shows, so yes, perhaps it needs to have 50% Group V to clean the ring lands in one shot, but we cannot, with any degree of reasonability, extrapolate that to mean you need 50% Group V to clean the ring lands. The obvious inference would be that if you use less of that ester (or AN), it's going to take longer, see: HPL engine cleaner, which is NOT designed to do the job in "one go", but gently, to avoid the issue Valvoline mentions: plugging the oil filter.

I'm ok with the piston but I edited the post to use the ones from LSJR video instead. I'm not quite sure why they labeled them that way, but I have no reason to believe they're lying.

That is true, over time oils with high solvency could very well clean pistons rings over time. That's just my guess though. I also think if you just using a top tier oil from the start R&P is of no use.

They do have these shots and shots from LSJ video:

 

[cheesepuffs2]

We should probably avoid sharing the slide that has totally different pistons I'm thinking? Just in terms of a credibility perspective. Stick to ones that show the same slugs, otherwise it comes off as disingenuous.

Thank you.

Those pistons (top row and bottom row) aren't even the same part number piston...

And then people saying, "they would be in serious trouble if they couldn't meet their claims".

Their claims are, "removes up to 100% of deposits". That is the most vague, broad, poorly defined claim you can basically make. It guarantees nothing and paints a hopeful picture that it could do everything!

Edit: And the photo above has bold text, "KEEP PISTONS FACTORY CLEAN". Just like Mobil 1 has been advertising for years.

 

[buster]

Thank you.

Those pistons (top row and bottom row) aren't even the same part number piston...

And then people saying, "they would be in serious trouble if they couldn't meet their claims".

Their claims, are, "removes up to 100% of deposits". That is the most vague, broad, poorly defined claim you can basically make. It guarantees nothing and paints a hopeful picture that it could do everything!

Umm because it can remove up to 100% of piston deposits LMAO.

Do you see any deposits in that last ring groove compared to top? I don't.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

Umm because it can remove up to 100% of piston deposits LMAO.

You're missing the point.

Of course Valvoline says that Valvoline is best. We have yet to verify any of this independently. People are further defending Valvoline's own claims about Valvoline by basically saying, "these claims are so bold that they can't be a lie". But their claims are actually very soft and not at all a promise to anybody.

 

[4WD]

When somebody posts Valvoline’s test procedures - I might make a stab at a conclusion - other’s seemed to reach them without that information … Not sure how anyone can think they are right …

 

[buster]

6:20

I trust Warholic more than anyone on this site no offense.

Pay close attention to what he says.

They not only ran it in a IIIH test, they ran it in multiple vehicles in actual field testing. Cleaned up an entire Ford Explorer engine.

"It does something no other oil in the market place does.....right now."

 

[OVERKILL]

I'm ok with the pistons. I have full faith it works and those are real pistons. I'm not quite sure why they labeled them that way, but I have no reason to believe they're lying.

It's not about them lying, it's about perception. If somebody scrolls a thread here on R&P and they see that picture, and pickup that those pistons are clearly not the same pistons (top row vs bottom row) they are going to question the credibility and objectivity of whomever is sharing it, and they have every reason to.

Generally, we should avoid sharing marketing material that is a hot mess, and that goes for any product, from any manufacturer, regardless of how good the product is.

That is true, over time oils with high solvency could very well clean pistons rings over time. That's just my guess though.

I mean, that's the premise behind HPL EC, which was developed because the high solvency of the oils risks clogging filters. I assume that fear didn't manifest in a vacuum, that there was evidence that this was a problem and so an intermediate product was developed to take a gentler approach to reduce the risk.

I also think if you just using a top tier oil from the start R&P is of no use.

I'm generally in agreement with that, but am still puzzled by the carbonaceous material liberated from my wife's RAM 1500, which had M1 EP 0W-20 from day 1.

They do have these shots and shots from LSJ video:

View attachment 252108

Yeah, those are better for sure. You gonna get your hands on that display kit? LOL

 

[cheesepuffs2]

6:20

I trust Warholic more than anyone on this site no offense.

They have all the data needed.

Pay close attention to what he says.

They not only ran it in a IIIH test, they ran it in multiple vehicles in actual field testing.

Ok, I watched. All he says is that they have photos and videos of pistons (perhaps some of those same comparisons photos that aren't even the same pistons). Yes they tested it in a Ford Explorer. Mobil and the other big PCMO manufacturers test in actual vehicles too.

I don't get what there is to be enamored with in what he said. He said nothing exotic.

 

[buster]

You're missing the point.

Of course Valvoline says that Valvoline is best. We have yet to verify any of this independently. People are further defending Valvoline's own claims about Valvoline by basically saying, "these claims are so bold that they can't be a lie". But their claims are actually very soft and not at all a promise to anybody.

It's clear you have preconceived notions and an axe to grind with the brand. And that's totally fine.

It's not about them lying, it's about perception. If somebody scrolls a thread here on R&P and they see that picture, and pickup that those pistons are clearly not the same pistons (top row vs bottom row) they are going to question the credibility and objectivity of whomever is sharing it, and they have every reason to.

Generally, we should avoid sharing marketing material that is a hot mess, and that goes for any product, from any manufacturer, regardless of how good the product is.

I mean, that's the premise behind HPL EC, which was developed because the high solvency of the oils risk clogging filters. I assume that fear didn't manifest in a vacuum, that there was evidence that this was a problem and so an intermediate product was developed to take a gentler approach to reduce the risk.

I'm generally in agreement with that, but am still puzzled by the carbonaceous material liberated from my wife's RAM 1500, which had M1 EP 0W-20 from day 1.

Yeah, those are better for sure. You gonna get your hands on that display kit? LOL

LMAO those kits are pretty funny.

 

[buster]

Ok, I watched. All he says is that they have photos and videos of pistons (perhaps some of those same comparisons photos that aren't even the same pistons). Yes they tested it in a Ford Explorer. Mobil and the other big PCMO manufacturers test in actual vehicles too.

I don't get what there is to be enamored with in what he said. He said nothing exotic.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I just want to be clear, I'm not saying R&P is a miracle product that is better than anything on the market. All I'm saying is that it has a unique cleaning ability and I fully trust them Ketucky boys they have the data to back it up.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

It's clear you have preconceived notions and an axe to grind with the brand. And that's totally fine.

It's that I believe actual (independent) members of the industry that participate here more than I believe Valvoline fluffing up their own product. You're only listening to people on Valvoline's payroll.

 

[buster]

It's that I believe actual (independent) members of the industry that participate here more than I believe Valvoline fluffing up their own product. You're only listening to people on Valvoline's payroll.

I don't think Dr. Michael Warholic and Dr. England just made this up and went through all this effort to bamboozle you. Could I be wrong, of course, but I don't think I am.

There isn't anyone on this site that knows what they're using.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-warholic-ab6936180/

 

[Glenda W.]

Just to be clear here. 5k oci’s on top tier OTS synthetics do not always keep pistons clean. If that was the case I wouldn’t be testing R&P to begin with.

 

[buster]

Just to be clear here. 5k oci’s on top tier OTS synthetics do not always keep pistons clean. If that was the case I wouldn’t be testing R&P.

And if they can't keep them clean how can they clean existing deposits? In that video he said deposits start to form almost immediately. The key is using an oil that keeps them at bay as long as possible and those are your M1/Amsoil SS etc. Oils with stout oxidation resistance, little to no VII, detergents and moderate SA levels.

 

[buster]

Dr. Warholic:

 

[buster]

Interesting that a lot of these engineers are from NJ.

 

[buster]

Just to be clear here. 5k oci’s on top tier OTS synthetics do not always keep pistons clean. If that was the case I wouldn’t be testing R&P to begin with.

Just a guess but I think HPL could remove piston deposits based on @OVERKILL finding carbon after using Mobil 1, which at first I did not believe (not that I didn't believe OVERKILL but that Mobil 1 left stuff behind).

I think when Valvoline is saying no other oil can do this, it's based on the dry off shelf oils. Dry as in little ester/solvency. If HPL has as much AN/Ester as some say then its certainly possible HPL could remove existing piston deposits over time. Amsoil SS too.

 

[Foxtrot08]

I don't think Dr. Michael Warholic and Dr. England just made this up and went through all this effort to bamboozle you. Could I be wrong, of course, but I don't think I am.

There isn't anyone on this site that knows what they're using.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-warholic-ab6936180/

Every player pays engineers to hype their products. Just look at Chevron / Oronite videos, for example.

And there are plenty of people lurking here that know or could find out, if desired.

 

[buster]

Every player pays engineers to hype their products. Just look at Chevron / Oronite videos, for example.

And there are plenty of people lurking here that know or could find out, if desired.

Oh I'm sure. How they market it is one thing but whether it works or not is another.

 

[buster]

...just find it funny bc you have guys running oils formulated basically out of someone's garage with no certification that are questioning a company with an actual dedicated engine lab. Makes no sense to me at all.