Two HPL EC30 tests

[Avery4]

As many of you likely saw, I decided to do a 2 vehicle test on Valvoline R&P 5W-30 in a previous thread. One of the test subjects was my 1990 Acura Legend with a lifter tick only when cold and visible carbon and varnish buildup while the other test was on my friend's oil burner 2010 CRV. Since the results weren't what I hoped for, I decided to try another product. Here's a link to the Valvoline R&P test thread for those who haven't seen it https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/2-valvoline-restore-protect-tests.384060/

As a quick summary, on my Legend, I just added a quart of EC30 today and I'm looking for a reduction in cold lifter tick and/or a visible reduction in the carbon and varnish buildup under the front valve cover. For reference, here's the front head at the start of the EC30 test.

My friend's CRV doesn't have any abnormal carbon/varnish buildup, but it does consistently burn about 1 quart of XW-30 oil every 1K miles, which is most likely due to stuck rings and clogged oil drainback holes (a known issue on that era of K series), but in fairness to all products being tested, the actual cause isn't known for sure since the engine hasn't been torn down for an inspection. Either way, a decrease in consumption would be nice to see.

Anyways, I'll keep this thread updated for the duration of the test. As always, any thoughts or suggestions are welcome!

 

[wwillson]

Thanks for running this experiment! There certainly is a lot of varnish and sludge. When you remove the oil filter, could you please cut the media out and take some pictures of it stretched out so we can see what the filter caught?

 

[Avery4]

Thanks for running this experiment! There certainly is a lot of varnish and sludge. When you remove the oil filter, could you please cut the media out and take some pictures of it stretched out so we can see what the filter caught?

Yup, that's the plan just as I did in the R&P thread. I'm thinking I'll probably change the Legend's filter again in about 1K miles to be on the safe side.

With my friend's CRV, I'm not worried about the filter clogging since there's hardly any visible sludge/varnish, so if the oil doesn't get abnormally dirty (which I don't expect), we'll probably go 4K miles or so before changing the oil and filter.

 

[buster]

Thanks for doing this

How many miles did you run R&P?

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

This is my opinion only, but I don’t think EC30 is going to make much of any impact, especially if VRP didn’t. I have yet to see any pictured/documented evidence of varnish or significant sludge removal from using EC30. Tbh I would probably try valvoline premium blue restore for the best shot at something like that.

There was recently someone that posted decent results on a Highlander engine with BG dynamic engine flush.

 

[Vorlauf]

I'm currently about 5k miles into an HPL experiment on a 93 Isuzu Rodeo that was burning a little oil, is heavily varnished, & has a lifter tick too. It was filled with ~ 4.7qts HPL PCMO 5W40 & 1qt of their EC40. I changed the filter on it around the 3k mile mark & topped off with more HPL PCMO 5W40. While I haven't noticed any significant change in varnish looking through the fill cap, it hasn't burned any noticeable oil since I topped off, & the tick has drastically reduced. Also, the 1st filter was littered with carbon which I posted pics of on a c&p here. I was told by Dave the visible varnish up top is going to take some time. I'm hoping to get to the 10k mark on this run unless the oil starts to look questionable, then fill with the exact same concoction of their 5W40 & EC40 combo for another 10k. This isn't my daily driver, so will be a while before this oci is up. Best of luck with your experiment. Keep us posted.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I'm currently about 5k miles into an HPL experiment on a 93 Isuzu Rodeo that was burning a little oil, is heavily varnished, & has a lifter tick too. It was filled with ~ 4.7qts HPL PCMO 5W40 & 1qt of their EC40. I changed the filter on it around the 3k mile mark & topped off with more HPL PCMO 5W40.

So various 5w40s were the prior OCIs, previous to the HPL's 5w40 introduction?

 

[Vorlauf]

So various 5w40s were the prior OCIs, previous to the HPL's 5w40 introduction?

I purchased the vehicle back in 2010, & usually used Mobil1 EP 5W30 for 5k mile intervals. Vehicle came to the states from Canada, & no clue what was used before my time.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I purchased the vehicle back in 2010, & usually used Mobil1 EP 5W30 for 5k mile intervals. Vehicle came to the states from Canada, & no clue what was used before my time.

So a slowdown or halt of consumption could possibly be expected, as a rise from approx 10.5 viscosity of typical 5w30 to 14.5 viscosity of typical 5w40. So until you dig deeper into longer OCIs or more use of HPL products - based on hundreds of posts here at BITOG outlining heavier viscosities helping with consumption, well then which reason worked for you, has-yet to be determined.

 

[Avery4]

So a slowdown or halt of consumption could possibly be expected, as a rise from approx 10.5 viscosity of typical 5w30 to 14.5 viscosity of typical 5w40. So until you dig deeper into longer OCIs or more use of HPL products - based on hundreds of posts here at BITOG outlining heavier viscosities helping with consumption, well then which reason worked for you, has-yet to be determined.

Good point. The high concentrations of esters and AN's in the HPL may have softened and/or swelled the valve stem seals too.

 

[ripcord]

Good point. The high concentrations of esters and AN's in the HPL may have softened and/or swelled the valve stem seals too.

Just an anecdotal, but new valve stem seals did nothing to slow the oil consumption on my 95 Rodeo back in the day. Those Isuzu engines were infamous for burning oil, BTW. Mine went through about a quart of 15w-40 per 1k miles from the time I got it at about 70k miles.

 

[Vorlauf]

So a slowdown or halt of consumption could possibly be expected, as a rise from approx 10.5 viscosity of typical 5w30 to 14.5 viscosity of typical 5w40. So until you dig deeper into longer OCIs or more use of HPL products - based on hundreds of posts here at BITOG outlining heavier viscosities helping with consumption, well then which reason worked for you, has-yet to be determined.

The oil burning was only about a qt every 5k mile OCI's & never a concern. Pretty good for a 31 year old beater on 5W30. I'm sure running a higher viscosity helped with that, but am more interested if it will take the varnish off up top over time. As far as digging deeper into longer OCI's or more use of HPL products, I'm just following the advice from David of HPL after a few emails about my goals for both my vehicles before I made my 1st purchase. He was pretty confident that their oils had a good chance of cleaning up the Rodeo with time, & a 10k mile OCI with a filter swap half way through does not seem like a problem. I was sold by the stellar customer service from him & their sales ladies alone to make the switch, & support their small company here on out.

 

[Avery4]

After about a 200 mile trip out of state to visit friends, I already notice a definite improvement in the sound of the Legend's engine at hot idle and a possible slight reduction in lifter tick on startup, but it's too early to say for sure whether the cold lifter tick has been reduced yet since the duration of the ticking was never totally consistent..

However, I don't know whether the smoother sounding hot idle is due to cleaning or just a change in the oil's properties. I did instantly notice that the R&P was slightly more rough sounding than the 80% Rotella T6 20% MMO mix I used last time despite the viscosity being similar.

But xW-30 is a bit on the thin side for the 1st gen Legends anyways according to the chart in the manual and I didn't notice any increase in noise with R&P 5W-30 vs Mobil 1 5W-30 in my friend's CRV, so whatever caused the differences in sound is likely specific to that engine and may or may not be relevant to anything else.

 

[Titan]

It was filled with ~ 4.7qts HPL PCMO 5W40 & 1qt of their EC40.

HPL people have said the PCMO is a better cleaner than the EC versions. EC was designed to clean more gently than their multigrade oil. I would have not used the EC at all, and just used the PCMO.

 

[Vorlauf]

HPL people have said the PCMO is a better cleaner than the EC versions. EC was designed to clean more gently than their multigrade oil. I would have not used the EC at all, and just used the PCMO.

Before I switched over to what's in it now, I used a qt of their EC with Mobil1 FS Euro 5w40. I had a couple qt's left, & reached out to David about using the EC in conjunction with their PCMO for a full 10k mile interval. I've been asked about this before, & posted his response in a couple different previous threads here about the use of HPL EC. You can find them if you search through my postings. He said that because of the EC's very high natural solvency, using the HPL Engine Cleaner at 20% volume with our PC Engine Oils is okay and will boost the cleaning without effecting the seals - albeit at a slightly higher cost than using other oils. I've only got 1qt left & will use it the same on the next OCI, then just use their PCMO there on.

 

[buster]

I'm currently about 5k miles into an HPL experiment on a 93 Isuzu Rodeo that was burning a little oil, is heavily varnished, & has a lifter tick too. It was filled with ~ 4.7qts HPL PCMO 5W40 & 1qt of their EC40. I changed the filter on it around the 3k mile mark & topped off with more HPL PCMO 5W40. While I haven't noticed any significant change in varnish looking through the fill cap, it hasn't burned any noticeable oil since I topped off, & the tick has drastically reduced. Also, the 1st filter was littered with carbon which I posted pics of on a c&p here. I was told by Dave the visible varnish up top is going to take some time. I'm hoping to get to the 10k mark on this run unless the oil starts to look questionable, then fill with the exact same concoction of their 5W40 & EC40 combo for another 10k. This isn't my daily driver, so will be a while before this oci is up. Best of luck with your experiment. Keep us posted.

The HPL didn't remove any varnish?

 

[Vorlauf]

The HPL didn't remove any varnish?

Can't really say. I need to get another borescope & probe around, but can't tell just looking through the fill cap. Nothing noticeably different from what I can see with a flashlight. Then again, that's only judging from one of the valve covers too. To take them off on this vehicle is a royal pain, & not going to do it unless it becomes necessary. There's a plenum that sits on top between the valve covers you have to remove 1st along with everything else, & becomes a project I currently don't have time for. That said, it's been a few weeks & maybe 300 miles since I last looked. I doubt there's any change, but will check it out later. I'm only about 5k into this OCI, & was told it was probably going to take a few 10k mile OCI's before seeing any changes on the areas that only receive spray vs constant flow.

 

[Avery4]

About 400 miles in, there has been a definite improvement in the Legend's lifter tick. It hasn't been eliminated yet, but it doesn't tick for nearly as long as it used to. When I drove it this morning, it was done ticking by the time I was out of my neighborhood (about 1/4 mile), which is a first. Prior to adding the EC30, it would have continued ticking for 1-2 miles, especially after sitting for almost a week and then being started cold.

I also haven't heard any ticking at all on warm restarts, which is another improvement because it used to intermittently have somewhat of a brief tick/rattle when restarted warm, although not nearly as dramatic as when cold.

So far, I'm very impressed. I really wasn't expecting to see any improvements for at least a couple thousand miles since EC is designed to be a safe and gentle longer term cleaner, but the results speak for themselves.

 

[ZZman]

No updates lately

 

[Avery4]

No updates lately

Not really. The Legend is up to around 700 miles since adding EC30 and the lifter tick still hasn't been eliminated, but it ticks for significantly less time than it used to. I'm planning on pulling the front valve cover this weekend just to see how a reduction in lifter tick translates to visible valvetrain cleaning.

I had to order a second quart of EC30 for the Legend because I have added about 2.5-3 quarts of oil since adding the first quart of EC30 and need to maintain approximately the recommended ratio.

My friend with the CRV is about 500 miles into the EC30 experiment and the it has used about half a quart, so the rate of consumption hasn't changed yet.