I have seen that Yaris on the net before. It's impressive. The driver was a medical courier as I recall.
Why pay for UOA's or synthetic oils.
- Thread starter Avgas
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million mile civics are "very common" ? ohio must be the "garden of eden" for engines.
Well, look at it this way, what they spent on timing belts I have spent on oils in my domestic vehicles. Some I kept till 250k mile mark and still going strong when sold. Its all relative.
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Well... if Avgas had left out the (paraphrased) "just use cheap stuff for a million miles and stop wasting your time" blather it would not have been a too in your face challenge.
It would be "show me what I do not see".
Avgas: There can and will be unicorns of experience. You're correct that many engines can "manage" to get by without adhering to OEM spec's. On many cars, OEM spec's are the best "guestimate" at what will work over a given large sampling of your user base. There you get the Goldilocks factor where some will be short ..some will be long ..but most will be just right.
Now with the introduction of the OLM (I hold GM's the all time best invention since sliced bread) you DO INDEED see some folks managing 12k-13k OCI's on something as basic (not to be regarded as cheap) Pennzoil conventional.
UOA, for many here, just reinforces their notions of how well their personal habits are bearing out in fact.
..and as far as your reference to the Euro's. I'd love to see some used oil analysis following the OEM recommendations before they got on board oil factoring implemented. The engine may have made it through all the projected years of ownership without issue, but that can just be a durability factor.
As a respected friend once said to me (paraphrased), the way you can play so far outside the margins with lubricants is more a testimony to the robust design of the engine than it is the suitability (or use) of the lubricant.
It would be "show me what I do not see".
Avgas: There can and will be unicorns of experience. You're correct that many engines can "manage" to get by without adhering to OEM spec's. On many cars, OEM spec's are the best "guestimate" at what will work over a given large sampling of your user base. There you get the Goldilocks factor where some will be short ..some will be long ..but most will be just right.
Now with the introduction of the OLM (I hold GM's the all time best invention since sliced bread) you DO INDEED see some folks managing 12k-13k OCI's on something as basic (not to be regarded as cheap) Pennzoil conventional.
UOA, for many here, just reinforces their notions of how well their personal habits are bearing out in fact.
..and as far as your reference to the Euro's. I'd love to see some used oil analysis following the OEM recommendations before they got on board oil factoring implemented. The engine may have made it through all the projected years of ownership without issue, but that can just be a durability factor.
As a respected friend once said to me (paraphrased), the way you can play so far outside the margins with lubricants is more a testimony to the robust design of the engine than it is the suitability (or use) of the lubricant.
Gary Allan, your last sentence probably sums up why I am able to run these numbers. Honda engines can get away with this due to their design and ability to take anything as long as it lubricates, but maybe other engines cannot. I definitely acknowledge this as being a factor.
Anyone want to pick up the tab on a 15k UOA just to see what it looks like? I'll document the entire thing, I just don't want to pay for it.
Anyone want to pick up the tab on a 15k UOA just to see what it looks like? I'll document the entire thing, I just don't want to pay for it.
Originally Posted By: Avgas
Gary Allan, your last sentence probably sums up why I am able to run these numbers. Honda engines can get away with this due to their design and ability to take anything as long as it lubricates, but maybe other engines cannot. I definitely acknowledge this as being a factor.
Anyone want to pick up the tab on a 15k UOA just to see what it looks like? I'll document the entire thing, I just don't want to pay for it.
If you send me the oil in a clean UOA style container I will run it at Toromont-Cat up here.
Gary Allan, your last sentence probably sums up why I am able to run these numbers. Honda engines can get away with this due to their design and ability to take anything as long as it lubricates, but maybe other engines cannot. I definitely acknowledge this as being a factor.
Anyone want to pick up the tab on a 15k UOA just to see what it looks like? I'll document the entire thing, I just don't want to pay for it.
If you send me the oil in a clean UOA style container I will run it at Toromont-Cat up here.
Originally Posted By: Avgas
Cool, is that a good lab?
Yeah they just don't test for Boron or Calcium unfortunately but the tests are only $16 with TBN/TAN included.
Cool, is that a good lab?
Yeah they just don't test for Boron or Calcium unfortunately but the tests are only $16 with TBN/TAN included.
avgas -- per my post on pg. 4 -- i asked for examples of engines that "will outlast the frame by 500 k. miles", as you state.obviously, you forgot to reply, since you were responding to other posters.just trying to learn.i'll check the thread tomorrow, or friday.TIA,and have a good night.
What's up with all the trollish new guys? That first post has all the classic troll signs, he even says "I'm not trying to flame anyone", while wagging his finger at us nice. Yes honda civics are especially easy on oil and in some cases can do 15k OCIs on dino. I think its funny the OP claims he does 15k OCIs and then later admits he has only done 1 15k OCI.
Avgas some advice don't drink and post.
Avgas some advice don't drink and post.
Originally Posted By: Avgas
And how do I know the Pennzoil conventional protected my engine? It's as quiet as a sewing machine and runs great. Then again it's a Honda, if I were driving 'Merican I might have to look into quality oils a little more
www.millionmilevan.com - 1.2 million+ miles, original '97 5.4L engine, Valvoline conventional, 'Merican.
And how do I know the Pennzoil conventional protected my engine? It's as quiet as a sewing machine and runs great. Then again it's a Honda, if I were driving 'Merican I might have to look into quality oils a little more
www.millionmilevan.com - 1.2 million+ miles, original '97 5.4L engine, Valvoline conventional, 'Merican.
In all fairness any engine would run on a quality dino for a ton of miles if it was hot and running on highway most of the time.
This is no better than M1's test with the Mercedes on the Dyno that ran 1,000,000 miles. IMO.
This is no better than M1's test with the Mercedes on the Dyno that ran 1,000,000 miles. IMO.
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
In all fairness any engine would run on a quality dino for a ton of miles if it was hot and running on highway most of the time.
I strongly disagree, I've see many delivery vans and fleet vehicles that spend all day running the interstate that still fail at "reasonable" mileage.
Quote:
This is no better than M1's test with the Mercedes on the Dyno that ran 1,000,000 miles. IMO.
Absolutely dead wrong. If you can't see the difference between a couple years of controlled dyno time and 13 years out on the road working and hauling loads in the real world, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
In all fairness any engine would run on a quality dino for a ton of miles if it was hot and running on highway most of the time.
I strongly disagree, I've see many delivery vans and fleet vehicles that spend all day running the interstate that still fail at "reasonable" mileage.
Quote:
This is no better than M1's test with the Mercedes on the Dyno that ran 1,000,000 miles. IMO.
Absolutely dead wrong. If you can't see the difference between a couple years of controlled dyno time and 13 years out on the road working and hauling loads in the real world, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
Sorry I disagree...
StevieC what are you comparing the M1 Dyno run to, my thread or the Ford E-Van Ben99GT posted? Either way, M1's test was a complete waste of fuel and totally ridiculous. The van however, is real world data.
You see that? He went a 55k OIC on dyno. UOA that puppy.
You see that? He went a 55k OIC on dyno. UOA that puppy.
The van isn't real world data... Real world would have been driving to/from work every day mostly in rush hour traffic with the odd commute on the highway.
These are punishing conditions not highway miles for 8,10,12 hours a day, day after day.
These are punishing conditions not highway miles for 8,10,12 hours a day, day after day.
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