In town daytime fleet usage/city worker usage, it could work. Then again, how will a city worker be able to snooze in his truck all day in a Saskatchewan winter with the engine running?
'We're going to electrify the F-Series,' Ford exec says
- Thread starter GrtArtiste
- Start date
- Status
I think Ford is doing it because they want to build fast trucks?
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
How do you figure that? Can't they just use heavier springs? I mean, a 3/4 ton setup with a 1000lb of ballast starts to come around in terms of riding nicely--so just start with a beefy suspension to take the weight, and then after batteries are added, you still have a decent payload.
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
How do you figure that? Can't they just use heavier springs? I mean, a 3/4 ton setup with a 1000lb of ballast starts to come around in terms of riding nicely--so just start with a beefy suspension to take the weight, and then after batteries are added, you still have a decent payload.
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
The main skepticism is the proof being in the pudding. There is always talk about developing. OEMs are developING electric vehicles. Musk is developING a pickup as we speak. Electric vehicles have been developING longer than fusion power generation has been developING. The delivery part seems to be the problem. Admittedly, they're not as far behind with electric vehicles as they are with fusion, but you see my point.
To get EVs popular will require beating gasoline and diesel powered vehicles handily in a number of ways. Performance, cost, utility, and convenience all must be better than what is being replaced. That's just not there yet. I can see a few situations where an electric vehicle excels, but there are far too many where things are simply not there right now.
Even if everyone worked 9 to 5 and was able to plug in their vehicle overnight and never had a range problem because the drove no more than 20 miles to work and 20 miles home at the end of the day, the electric grid can't even handle that. Government budgetary considerations sure as heck could not, either. In many countries, government handles electric infrastructure. A government that suddenly has gasoline tax revenue in jeopardy can afford to significantly increase generating capacity and distribution in systems that are falling apart as it is?
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
The main skepticism is the proof being in the pudding. There is always talk about developing. OEMs are developING electric vehicles. Musk is developING a pickup as we speak. Electric vehicles have been developING longer than fusion power generation has been developING. The delivery part seems to be the problem. Admittedly, they're not as far behind with electric vehicles as they are with fusion, but you see my point.
To get EVs popular will require beating gasoline and diesel powered vehicles handily in a number of ways. Performance, cost, utility, and convenience all must be better than what is being replaced. That's just not there yet. I can see a few situations where an electric vehicle excels, but there are far too many where things are simply not there right now.
Even if everyone worked 9 to 5 and was able to plug in their vehicle overnight and never had a range problem because the drove no more than 20 miles to work and 20 miles home at the end of the day, the electric grid can't even handle that. Government budgetary considerations sure as heck could not, either. In many countries, government handles electric infrastructure. A government that suddenly has gasoline tax revenue in jeopardy can afford to significantly increase generating capacity and distribution in systems that are falling apart as it is?
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
In Detroit, we have a saying about the engineering of electric cars: "Speed. Range. Comfort. Pick any one that you want."
Looking up the specs of the current Ford F150, the maximum payload capacity of any version is 3270 pounds, and the maximum available fuel tank capacity is 36 gallons. This 36 gallons of fuel would weigh ~220 pounds, and the fuel tank about 50. This makes the weight of fuel plus payload 3520 pounds, and a maximum GVW of 7850 pounds.
I know from my experience in fuel economy testing at GM that a 1/2-ton pickup requires an average power of 9.8 kW to get through the FTP-75 test, which lasts 44 minutes. This makes the energy usage through the cycle 7.2 kW*hr at an average speed of 29 mph, for a distance traveled of 21 miles. The 3.5 Ecoboost has a combined fuel economy rating of 18 mpg in the maximum payload 4x4 configuration. 18 mpg x 36 gallons gives the F150 a range of 648 miles on the FTP cycle.
Now, for the electric F150 to have the same range at max payload would require a battery capacity of 648 miles / (21 miles/cycle) x 7.2 kW*hr/cycle = 222 kW*hr. This is more than double the capacity of the biggest battery that Tesla has in production: 100 kW*hr in the Model S P100d. Tesla's 100 kW*hr battery weighs 1400 pounds, so scaling linearly, the 222 kW*hr battery would weigh 3108 pounds. So this would yield a residual payload of 412 pounds once the weight of the battery is subtracted from the 3520 pound weight of fuel+payload for the gas truck. Weight of passengers is included in the payload, so if you are carrying two 200-pound guys while driving your expensive electric truck, you don't have any payload capacity available.
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
In Detroit, we have a saying about the engineering of electric cars: "Speed. Range. Comfort. Pick any one that you want."
Looking up the specs of the current Ford F150, the maximum payload capacity of any version is 3270 pounds, and the maximum available fuel tank capacity is 36 gallons. This 36 gallons of fuel would weigh ~220 pounds, and the fuel tank about 50. This makes the weight of fuel plus payload 3520 pounds, and a maximum GVW of 7850 pounds.
I know from my experience in fuel economy testing at GM that a 1/2-ton pickup requires an average power of 9.8 kW to get through the FTP-75 test, which lasts 44 minutes. This makes the energy usage through the cycle 7.2 kW*hr at an average speed of 29 mph, for a distance traveled of 21 miles. The 3.5 Ecoboost has a combined fuel economy rating of 18 mpg in the maximum payload 4x4 configuration. 18 mpg x 36 gallons gives the F150 a range of 648 miles on the FTP cycle.
Now, for the electric F150 to have the same range at max payload would require a battery capacity of 648 miles / (21 miles/cycle) x 7.2 kW*hr/cycle = 222 kW*hr. This is more than double the capacity of the biggest battery that Tesla has in production: 100 kW*hr in the Model S P100d. Tesla's 100 kW*hr battery weighs 1400 pounds, so scaling linearly, the 222 kW*hr battery would weigh 3108 pounds. So this would yield a residual payload of 412 pounds once the weight of the battery is subtracted from the 3520 pound weight of fuel+payload for the gas truck. Weight of passengers is included in the payload, so if you are carrying two 200-pound guys while driving your expensive electric truck, you don't have any payload capacity available.
Last edited:
A Harmann,
you will soon find out that logic and reason do not apply in the conversation that you are currently engaged in.
For reference, here's Tesla's 200KWh utility storage battery - yes if you build a 100MWh battery farm, you need 500 of them (more if it's hot).
BTW, to achieve Musks promised Semi Trailer performance, you need at least 6 of those...BTW, wasn't that due out last year ?
you will soon find out that logic and reason do not apply in the conversation that you are currently engaged in.
For reference, here's Tesla's 200KWh utility storage battery - yes if you build a 100MWh battery farm, you need 500 of them (more if it's hot).
BTW, to achieve Musks promised Semi Trailer performance, you need at least 6 of those...BTW, wasn't that due out last year ?
Originally Posted by Shannow
A Harmann,
you will soon find out that logic and reason do not apply in the conversation that you are currently engaged in.
For reference, here's Tesla's 200KWh utility storage battery - yes if you build a 100MWh battery farm, you need 500 of them (more if it's hot).
BTW, to achieve Musks promised Semi Trailer performance, you need at least 6 of those...BTW, wasn't that due out last year ?
Yes, it occurred to me that electric car advocacy is a religion, not science. But I thought I would try again.
A Harmann,
you will soon find out that logic and reason do not apply in the conversation that you are currently engaged in.
For reference, here's Tesla's 200KWh utility storage battery - yes if you build a 100MWh battery farm, you need 500 of them (more if it's hot).
BTW, to achieve Musks promised Semi Trailer performance, you need at least 6 of those...BTW, wasn't that due out last year ?
Yes, it occurred to me that electric car advocacy is a religion, not science. But I thought I would try again.
I guess all these auto companies are wasting the many millions they invested in these cars?
New EVs for 2019
New EVs for 2019
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I guess all these auto companies are wasting the many millions they invested in these cars?
New EVs for 2019
Yes, they are. But it's a necessary business expense, written off as Public Relations.
I guess all these auto companies are wasting the many millions they invested in these cars?
New EVs for 2019
Yes, they are. But it's a necessary business expense, written off as Public Relations.
Electric pickups will do well in mild climates where they are used as commuters and go getters with the occasional trip to the nursery or hardware store for some supplies but in the Midwest and West where pickups are used for working farms and ranches, they will be handicapped. Nobody will want to run out of power on the back forty. Also, this weeks cold weather would certainly affect the batteries themselves.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Electric pickups will do well in mild climates where they are used as commuters and go getters with the occasional trip to the nursery or hardware store for some supplies but in the Midwest and West where pickups are used for working farms and ranches, they will be handicapped. Nobody will want to run out of power on the back forty. Also, this weeks cold weather would certainly affect the batteries themselves.
There's no shortage of farms and ranches in California, which is the #1 agricultural state in the US. It could work depending on the specific needs and a charging infrastructure at the worksites. How much does a working pickup truck really travel on an average work day?
Electric pickups will do well in mild climates where they are used as commuters and go getters with the occasional trip to the nursery or hardware store for some supplies but in the Midwest and West where pickups are used for working farms and ranches, they will be handicapped. Nobody will want to run out of power on the back forty. Also, this weeks cold weather would certainly affect the batteries themselves.
There's no shortage of farms and ranches in California, which is the #1 agricultural state in the US. It could work depending on the specific needs and a charging infrastructure at the worksites. How much does a working pickup truck really travel on an average work day?
Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
How do you figure that? Can't they just use heavier springs? I mean, a 3/4 ton setup with a 1000lb of ballast starts to come around in terms of riding nicely--so just start with a beefy suspension to take the weight, and then after batteries are added, you still have a decent payload.
You are GRAVELY underestimating the amount of power it takes to move a heavy trailer.
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
How do you figure that? Can't they just use heavier springs? I mean, a 3/4 ton setup with a 1000lb of ballast starts to come around in terms of riding nicely--so just start with a beefy suspension to take the weight, and then after batteries are added, you still have a decent payload.
You are GRAVELY underestimating the amount of power it takes to move a heavy trailer.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
Does the difference between pulling a 4000 lb. car and pulling a (presumably) 10,000lb.+ truck and a 10,000lb.+ Load really need to be explained?
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
Does the difference between pulling a 4000 lb. car and pulling a (presumably) 10,000lb.+ truck and a 10,000lb.+ Load really need to be explained?
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by PimTac
Electric pickups will do well in mild climates where they are used as commuters and go getters with the occasional trip to the nursery or hardware store for some supplies but in the Midwest and West where pickups are used for working farms and ranches, they will be handicapped. Nobody will want to run out of power on the back forty. Also, this weeks cold weather would certainly affect the batteries themselves.
There's no shortage of farms and ranches in California, which is the #1 agricultural state in the US. It could work depending on the specific needs and a charging infrastructure at the worksites. How much does a working pickup truck really travel on an average work day?
My guess is that the answer is dependent on the individual situation. For a typical Eastern Oregon ranch that has acreage in the five or six figure range it could be more than a 200 acre beet farm. How far to town would be another variable. Some places I know are 50 miles from anything. Weather and road or trail conditions might include the use of 4wd so that's another factor.
My prediction is that we will see both electric and gasoline powered pickups for some time. The pea farmer in Selma has different conditions than a rancher in Wyoming far from town.
Btw, the split pea soup at Anderson's in Selma was excellent.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Electric pickups will do well in mild climates where they are used as commuters and go getters with the occasional trip to the nursery or hardware store for some supplies but in the Midwest and West where pickups are used for working farms and ranches, they will be handicapped. Nobody will want to run out of power on the back forty. Also, this weeks cold weather would certainly affect the batteries themselves.
There's no shortage of farms and ranches in California, which is the #1 agricultural state in the US. It could work depending on the specific needs and a charging infrastructure at the worksites. How much does a working pickup truck really travel on an average work day?
My guess is that the answer is dependent on the individual situation. For a typical Eastern Oregon ranch that has acreage in the five or six figure range it could be more than a 200 acre beet farm. How far to town would be another variable. Some places I know are 50 miles from anything. Weather and road or trail conditions might include the use of 4wd so that's another factor.
My prediction is that we will see both electric and gasoline powered pickups for some time. The pea farmer in Selma has different conditions than a rancher in Wyoming far from town.
Btw, the split pea soup at Anderson's in Selma was excellent.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I guess all these auto companies are wasting the many millions they invested in these cars?
New EVs for 2019
A lot of it is tax subsidies by generous Uncle Sam who enjoys picking winners and losers...oops also forgot about the Federal and (sometimes) State tax credits for the end users. Tesla would most likely not exist without free hand outs...they should have been called Government Motors. Not a EV hater by the way...just dislike how the game is played by ramming it down our throats.
I guess all these auto companies are wasting the many millions they invested in these cars?
New EVs for 2019
A lot of it is tax subsidies by generous Uncle Sam who enjoys picking winners and losers...oops also forgot about the Federal and (sometimes) State tax credits for the end users. Tesla would most likely not exist without free hand outs...they should have been called Government Motors. Not a EV hater by the way...just dislike how the game is played by ramming it down our throats.
The electric pickup has a future, because it has had a successful past........in certain applications.
If Ford made an electric F150, I might be a lease customer. We already charge electric forklifts on a regular basis, so charging a truck would be a no-brainer. For local gophering, it would do the trick.
Would I want one for hauling boats? Heck no.
If Ford made an electric F150, I might be a lease customer. We already charge electric forklifts on a regular basis, so charging a truck would be a no-brainer. For local gophering, it would do the trick.
Would I want one for hauling boats? Heck no.
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Yes, it occurred to me that electric car advocacy is a religion, not science. But I thought I would try again.
True, but unlike actual religion, physics, chemistry and economics (perhaps with a pinch of psychology thrown in...) WILL have the last word beyond what any "advocate" has to say about electric vehicles.
Yes, it occurred to me that electric car advocacy is a religion, not science. But I thought I would try again.
True, but unlike actual religion, physics, chemistry and economics (perhaps with a pinch of psychology thrown in...) WILL have the last word beyond what any "advocate" has to say about electric vehicles.
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
Does the difference between pulling a 4000 lb. car and pulling a (presumably) 10,000lb.+ truck and a 10,000lb.+ Load really need to be explained?
As much as people really don't understand the difference between power and torque, a lot of these engines used in medium-sized industrial vehicles are rather short on power but high on low-rev torque. My 3200 lb WRX can put out a peak of 227 HP. A Caterpillar C7 can apparently put out maybe 350 HP tops, but expected to pull 15,000 or more lbs. But it's a torque monster, so it puts out more power at low revs.
Elon Musk has been using Tesla **cars** for trial tests of electric vehicles for towing. The key is that there's no transmission, no stalling, and a modified Model X could pull 120 tons. If you're moving a heavy load slowly, there's probably nothing better than electric. There are even electric powered aircraft tugs pulling 777s.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-pulls-250k-pounds-boring-co-tunnel/
![[Linked Image]](https://cdn.teslarati.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Model-X-Boring-Company-tunnel.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by khittner
A frame space that can be stuffed full of batteries, and max torque from 0rpm, sounds like a towing winner to me. Regenerative braking would make highway descents an easier deal, too.
The batteries would be so heavy, the truck would have ZERO payload capacity.
The opposite is true. The torque is linear. As far as suspension, EV compensate, so why can't trucks?
Especially for stop and go use, electric trucks make a lotta sense.
Elon Musk is has a pickup in development as we speak.
I wonder why there are so many EV naysayers?
If EVs are so stupid, why are so many manufacturers developing them?
Just askin'...
Does the difference between pulling a 4000 lb. car and pulling a (presumably) 10,000lb.+ truck and a 10,000lb.+ Load really need to be explained?
As much as people really don't understand the difference between power and torque, a lot of these engines used in medium-sized industrial vehicles are rather short on power but high on low-rev torque. My 3200 lb WRX can put out a peak of 227 HP. A Caterpillar C7 can apparently put out maybe 350 HP tops, but expected to pull 15,000 or more lbs. But it's a torque monster, so it puts out more power at low revs.
Elon Musk has been using Tesla **cars** for trial tests of electric vehicles for towing. The key is that there's no transmission, no stalling, and a modified Model X could pull 120 tons. If you're moving a heavy load slowly, there's probably nothing better than electric. There are even electric powered aircraft tugs pulling 777s.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-x-pulls-250k-pounds-boring-co-tunnel/
- Status
Similar threads
